# Most common reason to be Pitted Appears to be Dishonesty? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 13, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422 "2021-07-13T20:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/221 "2021-07-19T12:04:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Oh, I don’t need an apology for affirmative action; striking it down would suffice. That was not the point I made, but suffice to say, I do think that a lot of the limitations made before to affirmative action that used quotas are ok, since quotas are not good, [the reality is that a lot is still done to counter the injustices that are still happening to minorities.](https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/hiring/affirmativeact) And anyone can notice that what you posted does not show any concern for the minorities that are being affected by the conservatives that want to ban anything that smells like CRT. As noted, it is not just that, what hard conservatives in Texas show is that if not CRT, other reasons would be used by ignorant politicians to remove the teaching of past and current injustices in schools. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/222 "2021-07-19T12:16:25Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Re your first paragraph, about the… idealistically pure progressives who want to ban everyone else from speaking… I know one of them, and he doesn’t post on this board. While i certainly agree that such people exist, i don’t think that’s a common dynamic here. I’m not sure you got my point there. It’s that many people are using the same word to describe something quotidian and universal and presumably not-particularly-blameworthy, and also to describe something really terrible that should not be tolerated in polite society. You can’t really blame others for not knowing where the line between those two uses lies. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > This is sometimes the case. And sometimes it’s that common conservative views around the roles of the sexes are sexist, etc. (IMHO) Sure. It’s kind of the point here that not everyone agrees on what is racist, sexist etc. This paradigm of ‘if someone claims you said something racist, you should apologise and not say it again’ doesn’t really take account of that disagreement. It implies that person A should accept person B’s understanding of what is racist in lieu of their own, without any further discussion or evidence. That doesn’t seem particularly reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/223 "2021-07-19T12:20:17Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I’m not sure you got my point there. It’s that many people are using the same word to describe something quotidian and universal and presumably not-particularly-blameworthy, and also to describe something really terrible that should not be tolerated in polite society. You can’t really blame others for not knowing where the line between those two uses lies. You could try reading the posts in context. It’s generally 100% clear if you are being accused of “you should work on that” level racism or “you’re a monster” level racism. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Sure. It’s kind of the point here that not everyone agrees on what is racist, sexist etc. This paradigm of ‘if someone claims you said something racist, you should apologise and not say it again’ doesn’t really take account of that disagreement. It implies that person A should accept person B’s understanding of what is racist in lieu of their own, without any further discussion or evidence. That doesn’t seem particularly reasonable. That’s fine, you are free not to change your mind, and others are free to call you out for it. Or should they just be forced to accept your understanding of what is and isn’t racist? That doesn’t seem particularly reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/224 "2021-07-19T12:25:26Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > It implies that person A should accept person B’s understanding of what is racist in lieu of their own, without any further discussion or evidence. That doesn’t seem particularly reasonable. Moving away from any racism, the issue of vaccines is also being dealt with in the worse way by many conservatives out there. Further discussion or evidence is being dismissed at very dangerous levels. [https://www.wtva.com/templates/AMP?contentID=574859822](https://www.wtva.com/templates/AMP?contentID=574859822) > **[Republican lawmakers push to cast vaccine refusal as a civil rights issue](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/16/republicans-covid-19-vaccine-refusal-legal-protections)** > > Bills in several statehouses seek to block employers from demanding Covid-19 immunization, even though few do ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/225 "2021-07-19T12:26:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You could try reading the posts in context. It’s generally 100% clear if you are being accused of “you should work on that” level racism or “you’re a monster” level racism. Maybe it is to you. Not to everyone. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s fine, you are free not to change your mind, and others are free to call you out for it. Or should they just be forced to accept your understanding of what is and isn’t racist? That doesn’t seem particularly reasonable. They could have that discussion, and dig out the evidence if there is any. That is what I consider reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/226 "2021-07-19T12:29:15Z")
**Moderator Note** This thread seems to be going off in a bunch of different directions, many of which do not seem appropriate for ATMB. We also seem to have drifted pretty far from the original topic of this thread. Can someone summarize exactly what rule, moderation, or board issue we are currently discussing? Also, this is a reminder that ATMB is not a general discussion forum. Keep your posts applicable to the SDMB issue that is being discussed. A lot of the posts here seem more like GD material, especially since it is no longer clear exactly what SDMB issue we are discussing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/227 "2021-07-19T12:35:00Z")
It seems like one side is arguing “given the extreme bias against right wingers by both the posters and moderation, the Pit should be abolished” while the other side is asking for evidence of this “extreme bias”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/228 "2021-07-19T12:42:17Z")
I have been thinking about how to argue the main point, and I don’t think it can be done appropriately. A good argument would include examples. But any examples would beg to be re-litigated. I came back to suggest that I think it’s time to close the thread. There might, indeed, be valuable discussion to be had in Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/229 "2021-07-19T12:46:04Z")
> [@ZosterSandstorm](#): > > GIGOBuster showing up in an ATMB thread to copy and paste his 4000th two page word salad about how critical race theory is good and inevitably attracting no staff attention for it, when people who disagree with him are not even allowed to discuss critical race theory _in the debate forum_ , is definitely proving a relevant point here, just not the one he thinks it is. > > When this thread is closed in 36 hours for “going off topic” as if it had a will of its own, that point will continue to be proven. Apparently 36 hours was overly optimistic… 🙄 ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/230 "2021-07-19T12:50:56Z")
Oh, so hearing if a liberal has a point about race “doesn’t sound reasonable” to you, but taking ZosterSandstorm’s claim, which he refuses to cite, at face value and assuming it is true - that’s all fine and dandy? If this thread is closed, maybe you should look at the moderators’ actual reasoning rather than assuming it’s because they hate conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/231 "2021-07-19T12:54:15Z")
I agree @Babale. To me, posts like that also show that it is more important for some conservatives to deal with another poster’s shortcomings rather than the cite that was made. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/232 "2021-07-19T12:58:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh, so hearing if a liberal has a point about race “doesn’t sound reasonable” to you That’s a huge misrepresentation of what I said, which was that being expected to accept some internet rando’s judgement of what is racist, without any evidence or argument, is unreasonable. > [@Babale](#): > > but taking ZosterSandstorm’s claim, which he refuses to cite, at face value and assuming it is true - that’s all fine and dandy? > > If this thread is closed, maybe you should look at the moderators’ actual reasoning rather than assuming it’s because they hate conservatives. I don’t need a cite for what I seem plenty of times for myself. If **GIGO** attracts no mod attention for his obviously off-topic posts, and instead this thread is soon closed down, that does tend to prove **Zoster** ’s point. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/233 "2021-07-19T13:00:34Z")
Nope, as puzzlegal pointed out: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > A good argument would include examples. But any examples would beg to be re-litigated. And of course, conveniently, the examples are being dismissed for illogical reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/234 "2021-07-19T13:07:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > That’s a huge misrepresentation of what I said, which was that being expected to accept some internet rando’s judgement of what is racist, without any evidence or argument, is unreasonable. Being expected to accept some internet rando’s judgements of what is unfair modding, without any evidence or argument, is unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/235 "2021-07-19T13:13:21Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Being expected to accept some internet rando’s judgements of what is unfair modding, without any evidence or argument, is unreasonable. No one is expecting that. That’s why we have this forum, so we can make arguments and present evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/236 "2021-07-19T13:15:42Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Being expected to accept some internet rando’s judgements of what is unfair modding, without any evidence or argument, is unreasonable. > > No one is expecting that. That’s why we have this forum, so we can make arguments and present evidence. Really? No one is arguing that evidence isn’t needed here? Unrelated question: this you? > [@DemonTree](#): > > I don’t need a cite for what I seem plenty of times for myself. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/237 "2021-07-19T13:23:16Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Really? No one is arguing that evidence isn’t needed here? > > Unrelated question: this you? > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > I don’t need a cite for what I seem plenty of times for myself. Oh FFS. I don’t need to a cite to convince _me_ of something I have seen plenty of times. You are welcome to demand one, although please note that **ZS** didn’t claim **GIGO** posted similar things many times _in ATMB_, but on the board in general. Now can we please end this hijack? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/238 "2021-07-19T13:26:14Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > Can someone summarize exactly what rule, moderation, or board issue we are currently discussing? Not sure we ever got an answer to this. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/239 "2021-07-19T13:27:23Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nope, as puzzlegal pointed out: > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > A good argument would include examples. But any examples would beg to be re-litigated. > > And of course, conveniently, the examples are being dismissed for illogical reasons. I have not read the entire thread, and I haven’t even followed what, precisely, you are being accused of, or are accusing others of, or even which of those is going on. The examples I was thinking of were completely unrelated to you, and have to do with the general dynamic of liberals and conservatives getting angry at each other. But I really don’t think I can go into any details without opening a can of worms that doesn’t belong here. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2021, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/240 "2021-07-19T13:28:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > > > Can someone summarize exactly what rule, moderation, or board issue we are currently discussing? > > Not sure we ever got an answer to this. > [@Babale](#): > > It seems like one side is arguing “given the extreme bias against right wingers by both the posters and moderation, the Pit should be abolished” while the other side is asking for evidence of this “extreme bias”. And the general question of the OP, about how the pit is actually used. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422.md?page=13)