# Most common reason to be Pitted Appears to be Dishonesty? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [July 13, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422 "2021-07-13T20:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/282 "2021-07-20T15:54:35Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > So it’s not possible to make unambiguously true or false statements in GD? Certainly it’s possible, and if someone does this you can show the evidence right there in the thread. My point is that GD threads in general are about debating things which do not have an obvious and easily determined right and wrong answer, and having lots of people agree with you, on a self-selected message board, is no evidence of anything. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/283 "2021-07-20T16:00:22Z")
And if the person in question simply keeps repeating an unambiguously false statement? What then? How shall we deal with people determined to poison rational debate in this manner? Leave them unchallenged? Hijack the thread to rebut them over and over again? What if they escalate with further falsehoods? What if they persistently misrepresent other posters’ statements, as many have been wont to do? What shall we do with people who persist in debating in bad faith? Without being able to call them out in the Pit, the only other recourses are either enhanced moderation and a resultant increase in Warnings and bans (and people complaining about the increase in Warnings and bans), or not to do anything and to have the level of discourse deteriorate into “YouTube comments section” levels of petulant squabbling. Both of those are far worse than the current option. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/284 "2021-07-20T16:04:06Z")
Does calling them out in the Pit actually do anything but make the Internet bullies happy? Such things have been modded. It can be called trolling. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/285 "2021-07-20T16:06:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And if the person in question simply keeps repeating an unambiguously false statement? What then? How shall we deal with people determined to poison rational debate in this manner? Leave them unchallenged? Hijack the thread to rebut them over and over again? What if they escalate with further falsehoods? What if they persistently misrepresent other posters’ statements, as many have been wont to do? What shall we do with people who persist in debating in bad faith? Pitting that poster can’t stop a single one of those behaviours. They can even mute it if they choose. It doesn’t improve debate or make the board a better place. All it does is allow you to vent your ire. Is that really worth the costs? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/286 "2021-07-20T16:08:24Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is that really worth the costs? You have to see it as a “cost”, and not a “profit”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/287 "2021-07-20T16:09:59Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Is that really worth the costs? According to the poll in the other thread, yes. > [@How should the Pit be changed, if at all?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859): > > [poll](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-should-the-pit-be-changed-if-at-all/946859/1) As there has been a lot of discussion lately on the Pit in many recent threads, I thought it might be helpful to try to get a feel for what the community as a whole wants to see done with the Pit. I feel like I’ve read as many posts defending the Pit as there are posts arguing for changes or even elimination of the Pit, but it’s awfully hard to tease out which views have the most support. Frankly, I think the Pit is a negative influence on this board and the arguments that I’ve seen in its… ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/288 "2021-07-20T16:11:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Does calling them out in the Pit actually do anything but make the Internet bullies happy? Allows for the bad behavior to be specifically called out. Otherwise, the cleverer people engaged in it can happily tap dance right up to the line over and over again without even that happening, making GD a toxic swamp inhabited by trolls and assholes. Even with the Pit, it’s happened in the past and the Board has been much the worse for it. Unless of course you want much more stringent moderation. Then it might work. > [@DemonTree](#): > > Pitting that poster can’t stop a single one of those behaviours. They can even mute it if they choose. It doesn’t improve debate or make the board a better place. All it does is allow you to vent your ire. Is that really worth the costs? What “costs”? You appear to be simultaneously asserting that the Pit has no effect on the people being Pitted but also drives them away in droves. Which argument would you like me to address? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/289 "2021-07-20T16:14:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Allows for the bad behavior to be specifically called out. You can do that in GD. But does it do anything when done in the Pit? as was said: > [@DemonTree](#): > > Pitting that poster can’t stop a single one of those behaviours. They can even mute it if they choose. It doesn’t improve debate or make the board a better place. All it does is allow you to vent your ire. Is that really worth the costs? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/290 "2021-07-20T16:17:07Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You appear to be simultaneously asserting that the Pit has no effect on the people being Pitted but also drives them away in droves. As satisfying as it is to take someone to the shed, I’ve not seen much in the way of that having a positive effect on change of behavior. In some cases, it results in driving posters away. I grant that in some cases, the desired effect may be to drive a poster away. [QED](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-mr-hoogly/946900) ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/291 "2021-07-20T16:19:52Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > You appear to be simultaneously asserting that the Pit has no effect on the people being Pitted but also drives them away in droves. Which argument would you like me to address? I’m saying it has little or no effect on the bad behaviour. AIUI, the entire point of trolling is to get negative attention, which the Pit provides in spades, while newbies and sincere posters with non-board-standard opinions are driven away by the unpleasantness. But if that’s what you want, I guess @QuickSilver is right. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/292 "2021-07-20T16:28:37Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I grant that in some cases, the desired effect may be to drive a poster away. > > [QED](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-mr-hoogly/946900) Guilty. I prefer not having to step on a thread shit in the Quarantine Zone. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/293 "2021-07-20T16:30:31Z")
Let’s assume that pitting board members is a bad thing. Just as an exercise, I did a quick scan of the most recent Pit threads. Out of the top 50, ten were pittings of board posters. The rest were about other things (usually but not entirely politics-related). Is it worth losing 80% of the content in order to get rid of the other 20%? Would you all be happy if the Pit remained but without the ability to pit board members? Of course, as already noted this will then require more stringent moderation in the other fora. And then ATMB will fill up with people complaining about biased moderation even more than it already does now. WIll that be a net benefit for the board? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/294 "2021-07-20T16:31:13Z")
That was not meant as a criticism of your pit thread. Just so you know… ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/295 "2021-07-20T16:35:29Z")
Didn’t take it as such. Sometimes a goal of driving someone from a thread is not not necessarily a bad thing. I kind of doubt it will work with this guy. ---
**Author:** ![GreysonCarlisle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@GreysonCarlisle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreysonCarlisle)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/296 "2021-07-20T16:44:30Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > > [@GreysonCarlisle](#): > > > > followed shortly after by a rule against promoting harmful conspiracy theories > > Who decides what’s a harmful conspiracy theory? Would discussing the lab leak hypothesis have been banned this time last year, for example? The admin decide, of course. The lab leak idea, probably not. I don’t think it came up. We’d had some Capitol insurrection apologists and a lot of false vaccine information being spread, so the rule was largely to curtail that. The specifics aren’t useful since that board and this have different purposes and philosophies. And note that I’m not advocating for such a rule here. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > The current focus of the conservative “leaders” (they are really followers of appalling conspiracy theories nowadays) is what you pointed out. In old times the Republicans and conservatives talked a lot about meat-and-potatoes kind of ideas. Nowadays they are mostly pumping the nuts and banana ones. Too true. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/297 "2021-07-20T16:45:24Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Is it worth losing 80% of the content in order to get rid of the other 20%? Would you all be happy if the Pit remained but without the ability to pit board members? I await correction, but my understanding is that those of us (at least me) who are saying “get rid of the Pit” are saying so in the context of the pitting of other posters. I think it is a good forum for blasting the guy in front of you in the checkout line, or Trump, or Biden, or your asshole neighbor that plays his music too loud. > [@Tfletch1](#): > > Didn’t take it as such. Sometimes a goal of driving someone from a thread is not not necessarily a bad thing. I kind of doubt it will work with this guy. Why? I don’t agree with everything he is saying, but what did he say that was so bad that you don’t even want him to post there? Put him on ignore. Just because he doesn’t fall in line with the holy scripture as given by God to the members of this board doesn’t mean his opinions are not worth reading. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/298 "2021-07-20T16:52:10Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@GIGObuster](#): > > > > But the focus of the board is to fight ignorance. > > Which you do by facts, cites and debating, not name calling. Good thing I mentioned about doing those facts, cites and debating first, the optional final step of seeing a poster doubling and tripling down on cites that were shown already to that poster to lousy can be done in due time. ---
**Author:** ![Tfletch1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tfletch1/32/5340_2.png) [@Tfletch1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tfletch1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/299 "2021-07-20T16:52:25Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Why? I don’t agree with everything he is saying, but what did he say that was so bad that you don’t even want him to post there? Put him on ignore. Just because he doesn’t fall in line with the holy scripture as given by God to the members of this board doesn’t mean his opinions are not worth reading. He’s threadshitting plain and simple. The quarantine zone can have plenty of discussions with people agreeing without being littered with turds. Too many turds are hard to avoid even when you put someone on ignore. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/300 "2021-07-20T16:54:31Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > Just because he doesn’t fall in line with the holy scripture as given by God to the members of this board Oh look - another one of these gratuitous jabs. Yes, it’s terrible how some people attack others over and over for having different views. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422/301 "2021-07-20T16:55:38Z")
How is it threadshitting? The topic is about whether vaccines should be mandatory. He is complaining that people who have quarantined for a year are demanding that others get vaccinated so they can go on vacation. I don’t agree with the argument. Full stop. However, it is relevant to the thread topic. He is saying that those demanding mandatory vaccinations are acting out of a selfish motive. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-common-reason-to-be-pitted-appears-to-be-dishonesty/946422.md?page=16)