# Most counter-intuitive device?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [August 16, 2008, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235 "2008-08-16T17:55:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2008, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/21 "2008-08-21T14:15:24Z")
[QUOTE=threemae]
Perhaps they ought to be marked in some way to warn someone about the reverse-thread…
[/QUOTE]
If only reverse-threads had the threads slanting the opposite way when viewed from the side… 😉
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### Author:  [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/22 "2008-08-21T14:50:21Z")
My sis called me to bring my tools and help her get her propane tank off her grill. She couldn’t budge the fitting.
Well I came out with my big-ass wrenches and tried for 10 minutes to get the damn thing off. No luck except dinged up metal and sweaty me. Then on the new tank I happened to see fine print about the fitting being reverse threaded. DOH!
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### Author:  [@Elenfair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elenfair)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/23 "2008-08-21T18:26:01Z")
Another vote for microfilm readers and comcast digital cable remotes. Seriously. What gives?
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### Author:  [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)
#### Post date: [August 21, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/24 "2008-08-21T20:14:11Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger]
If only reverse-threads had the threads slanting the opposite way when viewed from the side… 😉
[/QUOTE]
So all I need to do to check is to unscrew the part and look at it?
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### Author:  [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/25 "2008-08-22T08:22:27Z")
[QUOTE=Spiny Norman]
The vi editor. It’s extremely powerful, but comes with a learning curve reminiscent of Eiger’s North Face.
[/QUOTE]
Ooooh yeah. I haven’t even seen vi in years, but I don’t ever remember it having a learning curve. It was more of a wall. A great big wall, with a bit of an overhang. Something like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Wall), maybe.
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### Author:  [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/26 "2008-08-22T08:41:56Z")
[QUOTE=Kyla]
Comcast’s digital cable remote. You can bring up a listing of the current shows and scan through them, which is cool, but the channel listing goes from the low channel numbers to the high numbers. So, in order to scan the UPPER channels, you have to press the DOWN button. It’s totally counter intuitive and I find myself scanning in the wrong direction about once a day.
[/QUOTE]
When I’m at my parents, I have to use their DirecTV remote, and at some point, the higher channels actually switch directions. If you’re in normal TV mode, it’s one direction, but if you’re looking at the grid, it’s another.
Dumb engineering. I can’t imagine who thought that was a bright idea.
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### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/27 "2008-08-22T08:50:41Z")
Why do toasters go to the point of carbonizing bread? I have just bought a new one and after several weeks still haven’t found the proper setting for toast as I like it. I have worked up to a setting where I have to do a full toast plus a bit more but why can’t flat out just be “dark brown” instead of “aflame”?
Maybe rather than make toast once in a while I should just invest a loaf of bread in finding that setting once and for all.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/28 "2008-08-22T08:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=slaphead]
It was more of a wall. A great big wall, with a bit of an overhang. Something like [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_Wall), maybe.
[/QUOTE]
Kewl. That picture looks like it was taken outside of Mordor.
For my part, I nominate Chinese dictionaries, if not Chinese characters themselves. In order to look up a character, you need to discern the two, three or more itty-bitty root characters (called “radicals”) that it comprises, which isn’t always easy since they’re squeezed and deformed to fit the overall character into a uniformly sized box. Then pick which of the radicals is most important to the character’s meaning. Then find that radical in the front part of your dictionary, where you’ll be told where in the main dictionary that characters using that radical appear. Leaf over to that section of the dictionary, and figure out where your particular character is located in the section based on how many strokes are contained in the character.
Then repeat. And repeat. And repeat. After an hour or so, you can get through one line of text.
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### Author:  [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/29 "2008-08-22T19:40:04Z")
I will second vi editor. Who thought this was a good idea? I have blown away or corrupted files using this. As \*\* Spiney norman \*\* said, it is powerful but one crucial mistake and you are so screwed.
Even though I am fairly proficient in it I usually call the home office to talk me through it.
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### Author:  [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/30 "2008-08-22T20:52:02Z")
Reverse Polish Notation calculators. Ever watch somebody who doesn’t know how to use one try? It would be amusing if it wasn’t so sad. “Seven Enter Four Plus…”—what the hell?
I wasn’t a math major but I had a very geeky friend teach me to use one back in college. I can do it, but I’m still not entirely sure why anyone would \*want \*to.
edit: math, not match
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### Author:  [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/31 "2008-08-22T21:26:46Z")
I used a Polish notation calculator to get through Algebra 2 in high school, and it was wonderful once I got used to it. Now it’s not really necessary, as so many calculator can do " 9 / Answer".
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### Author:  [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/32 "2008-08-22T22:39:28Z")
[QUOTE=Spiny Norman]
And staying with the computer theme: The vi editor. It’s extremely powerful, but comes with a learning curve reminiscent of Eiger’s North Face. Until you know what you’re doing, your file is one keystroke away from disaster.
[/QUOTE]
Hah. Vi is nothing. Real programmers use ed.
> **[Ed, man! !man ed- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation (FSF)](http://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.html)**
> [@](#):
>
> Let’s look at a typical novice’s session with the mighty ed:
>
> golem$ ed
>
> ?
> help
> ?
> ?
> ?
> quit
> ?
> exit
> ?
> bye
> ?
> hello?
> ?
> eat flaming death
> ?
> ^C
> ?
> ^C
> ?
> ^D
> ?
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### Author:  [@Ronald\_C.Semone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ronald_C.Semone)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/33 "2008-08-22T22:53:37Z")
Counter intuitive? When I want to turn my computer off, I have to click on “Start”.
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### Author:  [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/34 "2008-08-22T23:13:26Z")
Illustrator.
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### Author:  [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/35 "2008-08-22T23:37:38Z")
[QUOTE=Don’t fight the hypothetical]
Illustrator.
[/QUOTE]
Or InDesign. I got decent at PageMaker, but the simplest tasks using InDesign are very difficult.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/36 "2008-08-22T23:45:06Z")
The issue with the cable boxes is that when you’re looking at the channel listings, pressing Up makes you go _down_ the list, right? The problem is that no matter what choice they made it’d be counter-intuitive in some way. There are two things in conflict:
1. On TV remotes, people expect the up button to take you to a higher-numbered channel
2. People expect ordered lists to have low numbers at the top
To conform to both of these expectations, the counter-intuitive behaviour of the Up button is necessary(and if they broke 1) or 2) to make the Up button work as might be expected, people would complain about that instead).
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### Author:  [@pinkfreud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkfreud)
#### Post date: [August 22, 2008, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/37 "2008-08-22T23:49:56Z")
Programming a VCR is a piece of cake for me; even though the menus differ from brand to brand, it’s not hard to figure out how to access the features I want. But I’ve had two DVD recorders, and in both cases their menus were so confusing that I had to use the manual to figure out even simple things such as setting the clock.
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### Author:  [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2008, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/38 "2008-08-23T06:56:33Z")
[QUOTE=control-z]
Well I came out with my big-ass wrenches and tried for 10 minutes to get the damn thing off. No luck except dinged up metal and sweaty me. Then on the new tank I happened to see fine print about the fitting being reverse threaded. DOH!
[/QUOTE]
And now that it’s tighter than a mother fucker… 😃
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### Author:  [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2008, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/39 "2008-08-23T07:20:25Z")
oh man. I tried this with my gas powered weed/grass trimmer. I put so much pressure on the nut that I thought I would break the socket wrench. Of course I was making things harder to take it off with every grunt from me.
Righty tighty Leftfy loosey dammit.
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### Author:  [@Lavender\_Falcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lavender_Falcon)
#### Post date: [August 23, 2008, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-counter-intuitive-device/460235/40 "2008-08-23T09:09:47Z")
[QUOTE=gravitycrash]
I will second vi editor. Who thought this was a good idea? I have blown away or corrupted files using this. As \*\* Spiney norman \*\* said, it is powerful but one crucial mistake and you are so screwed.
[/QUOTE]
Yes. I once brought down a server making a mistake in vi. I was editing a script that had been around for years, and the first line was the name of the script with a comment mark in front of it. Without intending to or noticing, I deleted the comment mark and saved the file. The next day, I went out sick with pneumonia. My co-worker ran the batch of scripts, including the one I’d hosed, and it crashed the server because it kept calling itself.
The sysadmin nearly throttled her. He’d get the server going, she’d restart the scripts, and the server would crash. We ran these scripts monthly with no problems before, and she didn’t know I’d been in the file. Took them a while to track down the problem. It was bad enough that it was the first thing I heard about when I returned a month later.
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