Yes, all those actual useful results are such a drag.
Well isn’t that just a little too convenient. You could just as easily accept the “bad” Paul as the “heart of Jesus and Christianity.” And maybe there were two Hitlers too: one who butchered millions of people and a different one (the **real **one) who was nice to puppies.
And my nomination would be Abraham, though if it hadn’t been him it would’ve been someone else.
What doctrine of punishment in the later letters? Cite?
I am totally serious here.
German Intelligence slipped Lenin into Czarist Russia during WW1.
Funded him, too.
Fewmets met windmill after that, I can tell you! :eek:
I would say the most damaging individual was the first person who posted a contra-thread… ala having a “Best American Ever” thread and then responding with the contra-thread “Worst American Ever.” Or “Best Brit Ever.” And so on and so on.
The next most damaging people are the moderators who allow such things to continue. 
Background info on Kaiser Wilhelm II.
Watch the brush there, pal.
Which doesn’t make it correct. Much of it is incredibly ridiculous lies. Have you read it? Aside from blathering on with endless drivel about how he’s “proved” it will happen, he takes time to accuse the entire bourgousie of orgiastic behavior.
I wasn’t talking about that; I said that communist revolution wasn’t hijacked by “bad” people at any point because those bad people were the only ones who succeeded.
Lekatt has an equal point if Clothahump does. Science, in its forms of weaponry development, speeded man’s ability to kill by an incredible factor.
It’s also speeded our ability to survive by an incredible factor. I rather doubt cities of ten million were sustainable with pre-20th Century tech.
Or if they were, they were really icky. In any case, I’m pretty sure I could comfortably survive without the benefits of religion a lot longer than lekatt could survive without the benefits of science.
I believe Stalin killed far more people than Hitler did. My understanding is that Hitler killed roughly 6 million people during the holocaust and Stalin reportedly killed anywhere between 8 and 20 million people. I also believe Mao may have also killed more people then Hitler.
My particular order would go as follows:
Stalin
Mao
Hitler
Maybe Ghengis Kahn?
I’d vote Stalin as well. However, while it depends on exactly which deaths you assign responsibility for those numbers are off. That 6 million figure is the estimated number of jews killed in the holocaust, and that’s the number you usually hear mentioned. But if you include other people that were sent to extermination camps you’re looking at a figure closer to twice that.
Of course it doesn’t seem unreasonable to blame Hitler for the entirety of the second world war which would give him a total of 40-50 million or so (another 10-15 if you want to count east asia). I’ve never seen any reliable numbers for Stalin, but there’s a decent chance he could top that, I’d consider your high-end 20 million a conservative estimate.
Disregarding war-deaths and just counting I’m-a-homocidal-bastard-deaths, Stalin would win.
I didn’t say Clothahump had a point, but the good things of religion can be had without religion, but the good things of science can not be had without science. The application of science has changed the world tremendously, both for the worse and for the better, but in terms of body count it is way over on the plus side.
Wow. You’re a rebel.
What brush?
Not all Muslims are hate-filled, violent, blood-shedding people, and Islam itself isn’t a religion of hate or violence.
You could just as well say the same for Jesus, if you count the Crusades.
I’d have to go with Rasputin. His hold over the Romanovs led to a crisis in government that paved the way for the revolution which begat Stalin and the global spread of communism. We’re still dealing with his dangerous legacy in the person of Kim Jong Ill.
Sorry, got to challenge you on that. Show me where Jesus ever killed anyone, or fought anyone or advocated anyone to fight and kill.
Y’know, come to think of it, I just keep realizing how many total jerks were running around the place from the mid 19th to mid-20th centuries.
If it wasnt for him the message of Paul (if it was Paul at all, or if Paul even ever existed) wouldnt have lasted past the 4th century. It was constantine who gave the church so much power that it became corrupt. Its my guess that all the verses about hell, tithing, and guilt are probably add-ons by the church between the 4th and 8th centuries, and since we dont have any complete cannons of the new testament from those periods, its anybodys guess who might have “tweaked” it, certainly the church leaders benefitted the most from those kinds of teachings.
Well, by that time the technology was widely available to engage in million-plus slaughters. I’m sure Vlad the Impaler would’ve gladly invaded Turkey and atrocitied everybody if he’d had access to machine guns.