# Most Decisive Naval Battle Nomination thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [February 16, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590 "2011-02-16T15:49:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/1 "2011-02-16T15:49:50Z")
As was done in the Worst military leader of all time thread > **[Worst Military Leader (game thread)](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585694)** > > Setup thread here: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=584794. The five-word (or longer) descriptions have been edited as necessary for accuracy, clarity and/or consistency. In the first elimination round, each player has five votes... (winner: Luigi Cadorna, followed closely by Arthur Percival and Francisco Solano López) which I joined late but was amused greatly…I would like to do a similar thing but with: Most decisive naval battle of all time. I don’t want to get into the definition of ‘decisive’ so I don’t risk tainting this thread In order to start the game we need a setup thread for nominations. You may nominate up to five naval battles, describing each in just a few words. All descriptions are subject to editing for brevity, accuracy and clarity. Define “decisive” as you see fit. Nominations will close at noon CST a week from today, Weds. Feb. 23. After the deadline, I’ll arrange the nominees alphabetically, and we’ll vote them out much as we did in the the linked worst military leader thread. My nominees - going for the low hanging, obvious fruit just to get them out of the way 🙂 : Salamis: Greeks turned back Persian fleet Trafalgar: Brits won against France/Spain in Nap.war Lepanto: Ottoman high water (heh) mark Midway: U.S ambushes Japanese fleet Gravelins: Spanish Armada turned back by England to meet their famous fate. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/2 "2011-02-16T15:54:26Z")
[The Battle of Tsushima](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Tsushima) - Japan annihilates the Russian fleet ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/3 "2011-02-16T16:19:57Z")
[Black May](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_May_%281943%29)-when the Western Allies finally got the upper hand against the u-boats for good. It may not fit the definition/notion of what a naval “battle” was, given that we are talking about hundreds of ships and subs sprawled all over the North Atlantic over a period of several weeks, but it was decisive. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/4 "2011-02-16T16:22:43Z")
Continuing the Japanese theme: Pearl Harbor ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/5 "2011-02-16T16:42:55Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Continuing the Japanese theme: > > Pearl Harbor Not meaning to hijack with discussion, but really? I’d call Pearl Harbor about the least decisive naval battle–at least in terms on overall impact on the war. Yeah, the Japanese “won” the ambush–but they sealed their own doom in the same instant. They failed to eliminate the U.S. as a player, REALLY pissed us off, and eventually saw two of their cities get nuked before surrendering… ---
**Author:** ![blue\_infinity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_infinity/32/2817_2.png) [@blue\_infinity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blue_infinity)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/6 "2011-02-16T16:50:24Z")
[Actium](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Actium) - Octavian defeats Mark Antony; takes Roman Empire. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/7 "2011-02-16T16:50:40Z")
I suppose Pearl Harbor is a better nom for “most significant”; feel free to vote it out in the first round :). ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/8 "2011-02-16T16:52:47Z")
**Battle of the Denmark Strait** - The _Bismarck_ and the _Prinz Eugen_ of Germany meet the _Prince of Wales_ and the _Hood_ of Britain. Powerful shelling from the German ships, including at least one direct hit by the _Bismarck_’s 15-inch cannon, put the _Hood_ on the bottom less than 20 minutes after the ships spotted one another. The German ships then withdrew rather than chase the _Prince of Wales_. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/9 "2011-02-16T17:17:43Z")
Battle of the Leyte Gulf: Swan song for Imperial Japan The Spanish Armada: Protestantism saved in Britain ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/10 "2011-02-16T17:29:20Z")
Since Rickjay also mentioned the Spanish Armada…I am going to change mine to: Battle of the Masts - Arabs/Islam take to the sea and kick Byzantium butt. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/11 "2011-02-16T17:39:29Z")
Well, the biggies have already been named, so: Hampton Roads: USS _Monitor_ vs. CSS _Virginia_; first ironclad duel Chesapeake: French defeat British; Cornwallis doomed Lake Erie: Perry defeats British fleet; “We have met the enemy…” New Orleans: Farragut captures biggest Confederate city Glorious First of June: Decisive British win over French ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/12 "2011-02-16T18:03:30Z")
Not only a naval battle, but I’d nominate [The Sicilian Expedition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Expedition): the entire Athenian fleet and expeditionary force is annihilated at Syracuse, signaling the turning point of the Peloponnesian war and the beginning of the end of Athens. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/13 "2011-02-16T19:06:33Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hampton Roads: USS _Monitor_ vs. CSS _Virginia_; first ironclad duel Heh. I’d consider that perhaps the \*least \*decisive naval battle in history. Not only did the two opponents reach a stalemate, but it was abundantly clear it wasn’t the result of failure to perform by either the leaders or the men: it established that, for the immediate future, no one had demonstrated how to harm an ironclad warship significantly. It sent every navy scrambling to build ships, but ships that they currently had no idea how to decide battles with. > [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Chesapeake: French defeat British; Cornwallis doomed > New Orleans: Farragut captures biggest Confederate city Arrgh, I was composing my own list in a word processor and came back here to find you’ve sniped two of my favorites. 🙂 Decisively! Both those battles decided the fates of nations. Okay, here’s a question to the review board: do air-vs-ship battles count? Do the planes have to be carrier-launched, or does land-based air count? If so, I have some air-vs-sea nominees: [Battle of Taranto](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_taranto): ascendancy of the airplane over the “fleet in being” (even more notable considering the small, weak, obsolescent air units involved) [Sinking of Prince of Wales and Repulse](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_Prince_of_Wales_and_Repulse): The blow from which the British Empire never recovered (and cleared the way for Arthur Percival to seize the number two spot on the SDMB’s Worst Military Leader thread!) [Battle of the Bismarck Sea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Bismarck_Sea): The Cannae of airpower vs naval power But those may not count, or maybe only Taranto counts, since ships were involved on both sides. For straight-up, hot ship-on-ship action, I give you [Battle of the Aegates Islands](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Aegates_Islands) – Rome ends 23-year First Punic War, assumes lasting naval dominance ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/14 "2011-02-16T19:27:44Z")
Jutland During WWI- Germany effectively neutralized. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/15 "2011-02-16T19:43:39Z")
Well, two to start… **Battle of the Downs** - Larger Spanish fleet crushed, rise of Dutch dominance. **Battle of Sluys** - Massive French invasion fleet annihilated, preempting a descent on England. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/16 "2011-02-16T19:48:00Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Heh. I’d consider that perhaps the \*least \*decisive naval battle in history. Not only did the two opponents reach a stalemate, but it was abundantly clear it wasn’t the result of failure to perform by either the leaders or the men: it established that, for the immediate future, no one had demonstrated how to harm an ironclad warship significantly. It sent every navy scrambling to build ships, but ships that they currently had no idea how to decide battles with… I disagree, but I’ll save my arguments for the debate thread itself. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/17 "2011-02-16T19:51:23Z")
Another, since we spent some time with him in the _Greatest Military Leaders_thread… **Battle of Myeongnyang** - Shattered remnants of Korean fleet holds off and smashes a massively larger Japanese invasion fleet. ETA: Hell, I’ll give him two… **Battle of Hansan** - Brilliant maneuvering leads to key victory in Imjin War. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/18 "2011-02-16T19:53:14Z")
Battle of Diu: Portuguese smash the Ottoman/Mamluk/Indian fleet, thus ensuring Portuguese (and later, Dutch and English) naval supremacy in the Indian Ocean - the vital stepping-stone to worldwide European imperialism. Often overlooked - absolutely decisive. [Battle of Diu - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Diu_(1509)) ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/19 "2011-02-16T19:53:24Z")
Well if you want the decisoive naval Battle of the US Civil War then it has to be the Battle of Mobile Bay, which effectively completed the Naval blocakde of the South. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590/20 "2011-02-16T19:55:30Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Not only a naval battle, but I’d nominate [The Sicilian Expedition](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Expedition): the entire Athenian fleet and expeditionary force is annihilated at Syracuse, signaling the turning point of the Peloponnesian war and the beginning of the end of Athens. Instead of the whole campaign, I’d nominate the Second Battle of Syracuse (name from your link) which is the naval engagement in which the Spartans prevented the Athenian fleet from breaking out of the harbor, pretty much sealing the Athenians’ fate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-decisive-naval-battle-nomination-thread/571590.md?page=2)