# Most depraved/brutal rulers pre 1900 **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2015, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672 "2015-08-24T01:30:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/41 "2015-08-25T04:00:40Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > An obscure favorite [Queen Ranavolana of Madagascar](http://scandalouswoman.blogspot.com/2011/08/queen-ranavalona-i-mad-monarch-of.html?m=1) She featured in one of the Flashman books. And speaking of Flashman, King Tewodros II of Abyssinia, who was featured in _Flashman on the March_, is in the running. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/42 "2015-08-25T04:38:37Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > There seems to have been an [awful lot of legislation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factory_Acts) to improve conditions for Industrial Revolution workers, during Victoria’s reign. > > Did she, by any chance, resist giving the Royal Assent to these, or actively move to ensure they weren’t passed? From the site [**The Victorian Child**](http://www.representingchildhood.pitt.edu/victorian.htm) (asterisk mine): > [@](#): > > Queen Victoria’s husband Prince Albert spoke for many when he argued that the working man’s children were “part of his productive power,” an indispensable source of family income (Horn, Town Child 100). > > Thus, although legislation aimed at regulating and reducing child labor was passed throughout the century, there was no attempt to outlaw it completely. Loopholes in laws like the 1833\*\*\*\*\* Factory Act and the 1867 Workshops Act, coupled with a lack of local enforcement, meant that many children continued to work. As late as 1891, over 100,000 girls between the ages of 10 and 14 were still employed as domestic servants in England and Wales. . . . \*\*\*\*\*Albert died in December 1861. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/43 "2015-08-25T06:51:39Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > From the site [**The Victorian Child**](http://www.representingchildhood.pitt.edu/victorian.htm) (asterisk mine): > > \*\*\*\*\*Albert died in December 1861. “the working man’s children were “part of his productive power,” an indispensable source of family income” Well Albert was correct. A working man’s children _had_ been part of his productive power since the beginnings of agriculture. Almost every child in rural areas worked the fields, almost every child in urban areas did either menial tasks or learnt a trade. It just so happens that children were no longer remaining the “indespensable source of family income” at just \*this \*very point in English history. You can hardly blame the man if never saw this coming. I don’t expect Royalty to be ahead of their time in societal & economic predictions. ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/44 "2015-08-25T07:54:31Z")
I don’t know if it would count for the purposes of the OP, but he mentions “mental instability” and “psychosis”… Even if only because of that (even though by most accounts he was a really passive fellow), I would like to nominate Charles II of Spain, the last Spanish Hapsburg king. The poor guy did not have a family tree – he had a family tumbleweed. You can check it out here: [File:Carlos segundo80.png - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Carlos_segundo80.png) The Hapsburgs did not want to marry away from “proper” royal families, and (of course) they had to be good Catholics… But with Spain being the enemy of France and other European Catholic nations, basically the only people considered suitable to marry were those of the Austrian Hapsburg branch. The amount of inbreeding this caused was nothing short of phenomenal. Copy-paste from the relevant wikipedia article (emphasis mine): “Charles’s own immediate pedigree was almost exclusively populated with close relative relationships: Charles’s mother, Mariana of Austria, herself a Habsburg, was a niece of his father, Philip. Mariana was a daughter of Empress Maria Anna of Spain (1606–46) and Emperor Ferdinand III. Thus **Maria Anna was _simultaneously his aunt and grandmother_ while Margaret of Austria, Maria Anna’s mother, was both _his grandmother and great-grandmother._** ” He died at the age of 39, the most amazingly genetically degenerated king in modern history. Mentally retarded, definitely psychotic (he spent hours sitting in the crypt of El Escorial where the previous kings of Spain were buried, and he had their coffins open so he could be “in their company”), and (of course) the country finished its long descent into absolute shit, because he was absolutely incapable of governing. His favorites went unchecked and had a free hand in plundering the country, and many others just took the chance to do the same, because there was no effective governance whatsoever. Read about him and be astonished. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/45 "2015-08-25T15:55:44Z")
> **[​The 11 Most Sexually Depraved Things the Roman Emperors Ever Did](https://gizmodo.com/the-11-most-depraved-things-the-roman-emperors-ever-di-1479671517)** > > The emperors of Rome could be wise, just and kind. They > could also be vindictive, cruel and insane. And most of all, they could be the worst perverts the world has ever seen — at least according to ancient historians like Suetonius, Pliny, and... ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/46 "2015-08-25T18:38:16Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > I would like to nominate Charles II of Spain, the last Spanish Hapsburg king… > Hapsburg…Hapsburg… > . HaBsburg. NOBODY expects the Spelling Polizei! ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/47 "2015-08-25T18:50:24Z")
[NM] ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/48 "2015-08-25T18:55:43Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > HaBsburg. > > NOBODY expects the Spelling Polizei! OK, but “Hapsburg” is also an accepted alternative spelling 🙂 Copy paste from the relevant wikipedia page: “The House of Habsburg (/ˈhæps.bɜrɡ/; German pronunciation: [ˈhaːps.bʊʁk]), also called **House of Hapsburg** ,[1] or House of Austria,[2]\<…\>” Although I must say that I don’t get how come I used the alternative spelling, given that in Spanish (my mother tongue) the name for the royal family in question is “Habsburgo” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/49 "2015-08-25T18:56:20Z")
Nm. You corrected yourself. Good. Don’t let us catch you again! ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/50 "2015-08-25T20:06:36Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Vlad the Impaler. Vlad III is actually much respected by Romanians who consider him a stern, but heroic figure. There is some evidence that the serfs of his day liked him also because though his laws and their implementation was often harsh and cruel (standard in the life for a peasant serf) he applied them to the nobility as well. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/51 "2015-08-25T20:10:08Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Vlad III is actually much respected by Romanians who consider him a stern, but heroic figure. There is some evidence that the serfs of his day liked him also because though his laws and their implementation was often harsh and cruel (standard in the life for a peasant serf) he applied them to the nobility as well. He gave the peasants a stake in their country, eh? Perhaps he polled the electorate. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/52 "2015-08-25T20:22:22Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > NOBODY expects the Spelling Polizei! In this place? They have their own key, and a bunk. We expect them to feed the cat, but they slack off on that sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/53 "2015-08-25T21:55:23Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > Never by the millions until the industrial revolution. That’s not true. Children were put to work as soon as possible. Even if it was something as simple as separating beans or minding younger children. ---
**Author:** ![Kenm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bc79bd/32.png) [@Kenm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kenm)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/54 "2015-08-26T00:18:35Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > That’s not true. Children were put to work as soon as possible. Even if it was something as simple as separating beans or minding younger children. I posted about the industrial revolution in particular, where children as young as five and under had to run between chopping blades and steam-powered looms, risking life and limb in filthy conditions 12 hours a day without pay, or children as young as three on hands and knees hauling coal trucks through shallow mine tunnels in pitch darkness and be beaten for their troubles, not separating a hill of beans in mummy’s kitchen. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/55 "2015-08-26T00:41:35Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > He gave the peasants a stake in their country, eh? > > Perhaps he polled the electorate. > > 😃 Mostly, it was that the peasants knew whomever was in power was going to punish them harshly, but when Vlad III applied some of the same laws and punishments to the wealthy nobility and elite clergy, well, that was different and in a sort of twisted way of keeping one’s sanity under oppression, felt good. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/56 "2015-08-26T00:49:47Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > He gave the peasants a stake in their country, eh? > > Perhaps he polled the electorate. > > 😃 They were loyal through and through. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2015, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/57 "2015-08-26T10:11:12Z")
> [@Kenm](#): > > or children as young as three on hands and knees hauling coal trucks through shallow mine tunnels in pitch darkness Sadly, child mining has been going on since before the bronze age. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2015, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/58 "2015-08-31T00:18:58Z")
This guy is a contender [Crown Prince Sado of Korea](http://www.missedinhistory.com/podcasts/tag/sad-royal-childhoods/) - good podcast here > [@](#): > > Crown Prince Sado of Korea – sometimes called Korea’s “Coffin King” – has been described as insane, depraved and sadistic, but when you examine his short life, it’s more complicated than a list of acts of savagery (though there are plenty of those). [Wiki here -](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Prince_Sado) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/59 "2015-09-01T03:07:45Z")
Surprised nobody mentioned Zhang Xianzhong. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang\_Xianzhong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Xianzhong) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2015, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672/60 "2015-09-01T04:19:12Z")
> [@JoseB](#): > > Although I must say that I don’t get how come I used the alternative spelling, given that in Spanish (my mother tongue) the name for the royal family in question is “Habsburgo” 😛 Or Ausburgo or Asburgo or Hasburgo or… I remember that the spellings in my 8th grade history book and those my brothers were supposed to buy were all different (in theory we should have used three different editions). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-depraved-brutal-rulers-pre-1900/728672.md?page=4)