# Most despicable reaction to the Tucson shootings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 13, 2011, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443 "2011-01-13T12:38:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/81 "2011-01-13T23:06:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It’s not like that law would have stopped this shooter anyway. It’s kind of silly to think that someone wouuld be willing to commit mass murder, but not willing to break a carry law. How many people will miss that point? How many will willfully ignore it? Hmmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/82 "2011-01-13T23:21:56Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I don’t know if Ms. Palin was familiar with the term “blood libel” or not, but either way her brain reached for “libel” and some synapses just enriched that word for her with a handy adjective. Much like refute/repudiate made “refudiate.” > > This is another example of her frank spontaneity which is so endearing. She was giving a prepared speech, not taking questions. People being unfamiliar with the term blood libel isn’t a big surprise. But you don’t use the term if you’ve never heard it. Maybe I’m violating DNFTP here. DNFTP, people. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2011, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/83 "2011-01-13T23:41:41Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I am really shocked by this. I believe you – I just find it really amazing because to me that is basic grade-A classic antisemitism. It’s like someone saying they were an educated English-speaking first worlder who had never heard the term “concentration camp” or knew what its connotations are. > > I don’t know if it’s a Jewish/non-Jewish thing, or a European/non-European thing, or what. I can understand if they didn’t know the word, since I doubt they are too interested in Jewish history, and it probably hasn’t shown up in all those newspapers she is supposed to read. But they obviously had heard the term, and used it without understanding the context or its meaning. It is just another indication that Palin and her camp are a bunch of ignorant buffoons, spouting a bunch of good sounding soundbites without understanding what they mean. I don’t think it was anti-Semitic in context, just ignorant, and scary because her whole economic and diplomatic worldview seems based on a similar misunderstanding of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/84 "2011-01-14T00:01:41Z")
“Blood Libel” is still a valid accusation, when “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” and “Matzohs of Zion,” etc. are still being published in various languages on several continents. I remember exactly where I was when I saw the “BLOOD LIBEL” ad in 1982, denouncing the charge of Israeli complicity in the massacre of Palestinian refugees by Lebanese militia. Since some Iraeli patriots have devalued the cry of “Blood Libel” by conflating any criticism of their state & military with antisemitism, it’s no surprise that it’s been co-opted by anyone with a hair across his or her ass. If the “Protocols” weren’t still being peddled, I’d have no problem with its being used as an all-occasion retort; refreshingly quaint, like calling a sexual-harasser a “masher.” But it’s still needed for it’s intended purpose. So everyone else please get your own damn excoriative. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/85 "2011-01-14T00:14:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How about Republican Peter King’s proposal to ban guns within 1000 feet of government officials? Any righties upset about that? At least the Dems are philosophically consistent. King is ostensibly all for gun rights, but not if he’s in your presence. Yes. He`s an idiot. It would be a terrible law, and make unwitting criminals out of all kinds of people just going about their business who just happen to be in the 1000 ft zone due to happenstance and happen to be armed. 1000 ft is a pretty big distance. It`s also clear that it would not stop a single crime of this sort, since the lunatic would still be able to buy the gun and carry it anywhere else. And if the lunatic is inside your 1,000 ft circle, I doubt that he cares about a law saying it`s illegal. It`s also a hysterical reaction that makes him look like a big ole `fraidy cat. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/86 "2011-01-14T00:17:35Z")
Nevermind. I missed the Dershowitz mention above. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/87 "2011-01-14T00:20:44Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > As far as Blood Libel is concerned, [Alan Dershowitz](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/Alan-Dershowitz-Defends-Palin-on-Blood-Libel-2956) defends Palin: Please see posts 66 through 70, and pretend 67 through 70 are responding to you. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/88 "2011-01-14T00:48:28Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > My vote is for everyone, collectively, who is trying to score political points from this tragedy…including the folks on this board. It’s pretty freaking sickening, to be honest. > > -XT The question is most. If you, like **John Mace** , want to lump everyone … the politicians and pundits who started it with no evidence, those who are defending themselves and message board posters all together, then you and he are every bit as bad. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/89 "2011-01-14T00:57:06Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Go on, RWs. Keep trying to turn this around. Keep trying to create false equivalence. **You can’t do it.** Let’s be clear … you’re talking about false equivalence to trumped up charges that should never have been thrown about ( by those who claim to want civil dialogue I might add) in the first place. Right? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/90 "2011-01-14T01:04:20Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] The question is most. If you, like John Mace, want to lump everyone … the politicians and pundits who started it with no evidence, those who are defending themselves and message board posters all together, then you and he are every bit as bad. [/QUOTE] If they are trying to score points, as I said, then that’s my vote. If that makes me ‘bad’, and ‘every bit as bad’ as John, well…I guess I was born to be bad. That’s right, that’s right…I’m BAAADDDD! 😉 -XT ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/91 "2011-01-14T01:32:16Z")
The Mild One ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/92 "2011-01-14T01:35:51Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You mean the same legislation that the NRA supported? I guess even a one trick pony like McCarthy can have a good idea from time to time. Her latest attempt falls far short of the mark, and she is using the tragedy for her own grandstanding. > [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, the NRA supported the bill after she proposed it. I didn’t see them recommending it before the massacre. I have to add that this was a perfect example of a law made ahead of the mechanism that was needed to enforce it, as we still have no universal access to health care, we have many people that need help with no help or with very little. Even the NRA must had known that not much was going to change when there is little or no funding to take care or used to identify the ones that could not handle dangerous stuff. And if this -in favor of gun control- site is accurate, the NRA sacrificed almost nothing. [http://www.lcav.org/states/ohio.asp](http://www.lcav.org/states/ohio.asp) > [@](#): > > Mental Health Reporting > > Federal law prohibits possession of a firearm or ammunition by any person who has been “adjudicated as a mental defective” or involuntarily “committed to any mental institution.”15 \*\*No federal law, however, requires states to report the identities of these individuals to the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (“NICS”) database, which the FBI uses to perform background checks prior to firearm transfers. \*\*Ohio also has no laws requiring the reporting of mental health information to NICS. Ohio collects mental health information, but state law requires that it be utilized only in connection with the issuance of concealed weapons permits.16 What I would like to see is conservative outfits that are willing to stand up and be counted on to tell the government to fund properly what still needs to be done. ``` "If you can find money to kill people, you can find money to help people." ``` Former UK MP and Minister, Tony Benn. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/93 "2011-01-14T01:42:55Z")
Helping is much more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/94 "2011-01-14T01:48:08Z")
OK, here’s mine. Right-wing talk show host Michael Berry (KTRH 740-AM Houston) on his show this evening, characterized the crowd at last night’s memorial service, and I quote, as “…crackheads, welfare queens, drug dealers, and a bunch of college students looking for either their next hookup or a drug deal”. All 27,000 of them, apparently. This, it seems, because Mr. Berry took exception to the pep-rally atmosphere at the event. At least he qualified his statement by saying that he didn’t blame Obama for having such a collection of louts as his constituency; that’s just what the Democrats are, you see. Way to help heal the country, Michael! Forgive me if it doesn’t directly concern the shootings themselves, but it’s closely enough related, in my view. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/95 "2011-01-14T03:29:01Z")
The worst are the hypocrites condemning others for politicizing political events. Some in this thread. But take Jon Stewart for example. Ostensibly a comedian. He’s wringing his hands over this very issue. And yet just awhile ago he was stumping for the 9/11 responder’s bill and trying to shame the Pubbies into voting for it, sans any comedy. Wait, didn’t you just say you should stay above the fray? Way to politicize a national tragedy. 3,000 people died in a fire! HOW COULD YOU?! Screw those BS crocodile tears. Politicize it the right way, IOZ. > [@IOZ](#): > > What kind of violence was it, Mister President? Senseless violence. You see, when you are the plenipotentiary of the world’s foremost death machine, when you are ordering, literally every day, the killing of human beings, the destruction of homes, the bombing of farms and factories, then obviously you can’t just go out and condemn violence. > > … > > I say to you that he is not a murderer. He is merely a victim of faulty intelligence. He cannot be held morally responsible. No one could have known at the time! I think the best result will be that perhaps, after a period of instability and uncertainty, the state of Arizona will once achieve some reasonable level of self-government, you know, for the region. It will generally be able to secure its borders, hold reasonably free and fair elections. I think if we see that outcome within the next six months to six thousand years, then it will be impossible to condemn fully the initial action, erroneous though it may have been. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/96 "2011-01-14T03:36:37Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but lately I have gotten the distinct feeling that media types (or wanna-be’s) are constantly upping the ante to make sure that they remain in (or get into) the spotlight. I include Palin in the “media type” category, since I think she is less and less of a politician now that she’s quit her elected position, and more of a media personality with her own reality show. This seems particularly prevalent among what passes for the Right at this particular moment. What happens is, that one of the media “stars” (Beck Limbaugh, Palin, etc) makes a vile comment about the left, or a Democrat politician or a perceived “enemy”. The comment is widely reported, and the “star” gets a lot of attention. Another media star feels the lack of attention. And them makes an even more outrageous statement. Publicity follows. Enter the “B” list media wanna-be’s. They have to say even MORE outrageous things to get attention (see Michael Berry above). If this takes attention away from the top tier, then they have to pull out all the stops to keep attention focused on them. And so it goes… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/97 "2011-01-14T03:40:42Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > The worst are the hypocrites condemning others for politicizing political events. Some in this thread. But take Jon Stewart for example. Ostensibly a comedian. He’s wringing his hands over this very issue. And yet just awhile ago he was stumping for the 9/11 responder’s bill and trying to shame the Pubbies into voting for it, sans any comedy. Wait, didn’t you just say you should stay above the fray? Way to politicize a national tragedy. 3,000 people died in a fire! HOW COULD YOU?! > > Screw those BS crocodile tears. Politicize it the right way, IOZ. I don’t see how supporting help for first responders is politicizing anything. There’s nothing political about it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/98 "2011-01-14T04:28:20Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > I hate to defend Palin but I’m reasonably sure that neither she, nor her speech writers, knew about the anti-Semitic connotations or denotations of the phrase “blood libel.” I myself am an educated man, holding a accounting degree and a law degree from Midwestern American universities, and I’d never head the term before this week either. > [@SecondJudith](#): > > I am really shocked by this. I believe you – I just find it really amazing because to me that is basic grade-A classic antisemitism. It’s like someone saying they were an educated English-speaking first worlder who had never heard the term “concentration camp” or knew what its connotations are. > > I don’t know if it’s a Jewish/non-Jewish thing, or a European/non-European thing, or what. I heard the term “blood libel” used in a context that had nothing to do with Jews\* long before I heard it associated with antisemitism. The fact that I pay little attention to antisemites probably helps explain why. - Specifically, it was used when referring to attempts to discredit research that indicated that certain South American tribes were warlike & violent by claiming that the researchers taught them to murder, torture and massacre each other just so the anthropologists could produce a research paper saying they were doing so. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/99 "2011-01-14T12:39:02Z")
> [@What\_the](#): > > I understand that he (Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik) is against enforcing immigration laws too…some sherriff! I hope he’s targeted for defeat in the next election. As I thought, this misstates the case considerably. here is a relevant paragraph from a recent _Time_ article, discussing Dupnik’s initial opposition to SB 1070: [Quote=Time Magazine] Barbara Norrander, a political science professor at the University of Arizona in Tucson, agrees that Dupnik has been improperly pigeonholed. “His response to a lot of things has been more pragmatic, but like a lot of things, it has been misinterpreted,” she says. “He’s been in law enforcement his entire life. He is really strong on enforcing the law. His objection to SB 1070 was more along the lines that … the requirements of 1070 would take them away from curtailing more important crimes than everyone who gets stopped for a traffic offense.” After a federal judge issued an injunction against the language in the law that codified racial profiling, Dupnik dropped his opposition. [/Quote] Remainder of article here: [http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2041535\_2042315\_2041990,00.html](http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2041535_2042315_2041990,00.html) To the OP: got your wrong info from Rush or from Fox News, did you? ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2011, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443/100 "2011-01-14T12:50:11Z")
Your info doesn’t show that my info was wrong … only that Time Magazine found someone to defend him. I could be wrong though, but I’d like more evidence that the lady and Time are both fair and balanced observers. To what do you attribute his going off half cocked about the motives of the shooter? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-despicable-reaction-to-the-tucson-shootings/567443.md?page=6)