# Most difficult majors in engineering/sciences **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 22, 2003, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171 "2003-01-22T06:05:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/21 "2003-01-23T01:26:24Z")
So, what you’re saying is that I _can’t_ teach myself EE with those books they sell at RadioShack? On a serious note- I don’t want an EE degree or to make a living at it. But, if I want to be able to fix my own appliances, expand my capability to repair my computer, and build bat detectors, theremins, and such, how much studying do I need to do? At what point does calculus become necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/22 "2003-01-23T02:16:37Z")
At McGill, honours mechanical and electrical engineering were the toughest. Chemical was up there, civil and mining were thought to be somewhat easier. I’d say all of them are sorta tough, and 30% attrition rates pretty standard. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/23 "2003-01-23T03:07:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Christina25 \* > \*\*My ex g/f double majored in Chem and BioChem… at VaTech… definitely a lethal combo if ya ask me. \*\* My sister graduated with degrees in Chem and Bio, and could have graduated with another degree in BioChem if she wanted to put another two quarters into it. Both degrees where BS’s, and was from VATech. ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/24 "2003-01-23T03:11:24Z")
When I graduated, my university the ranking was BioE, the CompE, then EE, then ME, then the others. This was largely because the dean who created the CompE degree requirements was a sadist. 🙂 (Physics and EE if I remember correctly, in other words, a semiconductor head.) ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/25 "2003-01-23T04:55:02Z")
No one has mentioned this… I’d put up the Structures series of courses (Civil or Mechanical Eng, Structural concentration, usually - or just Structural Engineering.) against any other course of study you can name as the toughtest…until they teach you some shortcuts with Finite Elements. …Any course named “Advanced Stress” just can’t be topped! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![barking\_frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@barking\_frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barking_frog)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/26 "2003-01-23T08:03:25Z")
DocCathode, I can’t really answer your question, however I can say that since the the second semester started, I have had to use calculus in my fundamentals of electrical engineering course. Not like the ones they show in physics class for derivations, but for practical problems like the electric field created by a line charge (power lines), Gaussian surfaces, etc. I’m saying that only because it was a bit of a surprise to me, which is actually a good thing. It’s nice to actually start to apply stuff I’ve been learning. So since calculus is a requirement for fund. of EE (which is supposedly a standard first year course around the world), I imagine once you want to start making your own electronic circuits you would probably need it. However, to be a computer repair tech or electrician I imagine it involves no calculus at all. Here’s the order of difficulty of first year admissions at U of Waterloo: Software Engineering Systems Design, E&CE Chemical, Mechanical, Civil Enviro-civil Here’s the impression that I get of difficulty in upper years: Mechatronics Electrical Chemical Comp Systems Design etc. I omitted Software Engineering because I don’t really know. They are more part of the Math faculty than Engineering I would say. As for the sciences: Physics Pure Math Applied Math/Computer Science are probably the hardest, but computer science majors (who are under the math faculty), have a very light schedule. My roommate has 19 hours a week, and I have 31. FWIW, I’m in comp eng. Side note: apparently the weeder course for chemical and civil engineering in the second semester is the C++ course. It has to be one of the worst structured courses I’ve seen in my short college career. First assignment: use a GUI and draw a bunch of crap using functions in the #include file. However, they haven’t been taught functions or objects yet, so they basically extrapolate from examples in the textbook to suit their needs because they have no idea what any of it does. ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/27 "2003-01-23T08:30:39Z")
I attend RPI, and it’s funy how many of you seem to rank EE as a harder major, cause here it’s looked down upon by the rest of the engineering department as one of the easiest majors (second obly to computer systems engineering, of course.) I switched out of the EE program because I like electronics and computers, but I found out the hard way I don’t want to make and research them for a living. I Transferred into the Biomed department, with a concentration in mechanics. Anyways, here at RPI, the rankings seem to go: ChemE NukeE MechE/Biomed/Electric Power Aero/Industrial/Civil EE/ComSys And then there are dual majors, like AeroMechE and EECOmSys, which are a joke because both require about two more classes than a major with just one of the two. Other majors are pretty much ALL considered easy compared to engineering, with the excpetion of architechture, which while not hard, is a lot of tedious work. ---
**Author:** ![UncleBill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d26b3c/32.png) [@UncleBill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleBill)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/28 "2003-01-23T12:46:16Z")
From a curosry glance at the posts, ChemE seems to be at the top a lot. It was ChemE at my school, but we didn’t have a lot of majors. ---
**Author:** ![kferr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71e660/32.png) [@kferr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kferr)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/29 "2003-01-23T12:57:46Z")
I did Comp Sci at UMR in the early 80’s. Not only did we have our own weed-out course, we had to take the EE weed-out course too. At that time Aerospace, EE, and Nuke were top of the tree with ME, CompSci, ChemE, and Petroleum next, with Civil and Ceramics last. In the sciences, it was probably Physics, Chemistry, then Geology. The chemistry folks would refer to the ChemE’s as ‘recipe readers’. Here’s a lame engineering joke - What’s the difference between a mechanical engineer and a civil engineer? The ME builds weapons, and the CE builds targets. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/30 "2003-01-23T15:24:43Z")
**Phoenix** , what did you change your major to, if you don’t mind my asking? ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/31 "2003-01-23T19:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by javaman \* > \*\ ***Phoenix** , what did you change your major to, if you don’t mind my asking? \*\* I changed to Mechanical Engineering. The only programming course in the curriculum is Fortran (got an A+); I also have to take an “Intro to Electrical Engineering” course before I graduate. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/32 "2003-01-23T20:35:29Z")
My rankings go from hardest to easiest: (this assumes comparing the top students in each discipline, which is not me) Pure math Applied math Math/physics (this could be higher depending on the type of math and physics you do) Physics Electrical Engineering Engineering Science Chem/Bio/Mech/Civil Engineering Chemistry Biology I did 2.5 years of Aerospace engineering (which was basically electrical or mech with a couple of extra courses depending on what stream you did) and then switced to math/phys. My marks dropped quite significantly (especially the math) when I made the switch but I found math/phys more interesting. For a lot of scientists the ranking goes according to the level of abstractness. ---
**Author:** ![Balduran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cc9497/32.png) [@Balduran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balduran)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/33 "2003-01-23T20:52:23Z")
I will add that the engineers took more courses and worked longer hours, but I never remember being quite so stumped on a concept in engineering. I had to in some cases take the physics version of the engineering courses I had already taken to get the credit and the physics version was much harder. For example I took Thermodynamics in engineering and got an A+ then took it in physics and got a B. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/34 "2003-01-23T22:52:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeep’s Phoenix \* > \*\*I changed to Mechanical Engineering. The only programming course in the curriculum is Fortran (got an A+); I also have to take an “Intro to Electrical Engineering” course before I graduate. \*\* Fascinating. I didn’t major in CS or engineering, but I’ve been programming for most of my professional life. Programming, definitely, and what I know of a CS major, seems much easier than a major in any traditional engineering discipline. So much so that I can’t imagine an engineer having a hard time with Java. On another note, why are Industrial Engineers sneered at? Or is that a UL? ---
**Author:** ![SmackFu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@SmackFu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmackFu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/35 "2003-01-23T23:18:04Z")
Well, what’s the really hard course in Industrial Engineering? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2003, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/36 "2003-01-23T23:49:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SmackFu \* > \*\*Well, what’s the really hard course in Industrial Engineering? \*\* Well, IANAE, but don’t IE’s have to take pretty much the same core of natural science and math courses as all the other engineering majors? To those of us outside the profession, it’s that more than your specializations that make Engineering seem so mysterious and difficult. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/37 "2003-01-24T21:11:41Z")
Is the 50-60% flush rate for Computer Science relatively common? Because if it is, then _damn_, I’m feeling proud! Sorry, but I’m one of those “poseurs” or “wannabes”, I guess. I never had programming before entering the CompSci program at my university because my high school never _taught_ programming, and I didn’t think I could do it on my own. I’m much more inclined to natural languages, history, writing, etc (you know, the humanities stuff that engineers here roll their eyes at, but then they can’t write a decent sentence to save their life. I should know, I have to tutor them). My mom almost _insisted_ I go to this university since my brother went here and “he turned out just great!” (nevermind the fact that _I am not my brother_), and I didn’t want to piss her off since she was taking on loans to help me pay for college, so I did. It’s a tech university (but not a Technical Institute) mainly focusing on engineering. I’ve always liked computers, so I figured that if I “had” to go here, I’ll pick CompSci (I later tacked on a Humanities dual degree so I can remain sane, but I digress). And I’ll admit, the first programming class, I loved it. The prof was wonderful and explained everything. It was like solving puzzles. But after that I had incompetent profs (even the people who knew what they were doing were getting confused by them) who taught next to nothing and shoved us to the next class in the line. This was fine for the “true computer geeks”; they already knew the stuff. But for a lot of us, we TRULY wanted to learn it, but we weren’t able to. Then I got to Data Structures and didn’t know 80% of what I should have known beforehand (and a good deal of the class was in the same situation, due to those previous professors). The DS prof is actually competant, and he put us through the ringer. But I made it. I passed and I learned. And I’m still here in the CompSci program. I _still_ don’t know as much as those “true” geeks, as you put it, but _dammit_ I’m proud that I’ve lasted. And at my university, Computer Engineering is considered the most difficult, I believe, followed by Chem E and Mech E, then going to EE and on down the line. Ironically, I don’t know where the CompSci program is in that scale (there are three different CompSci degrees, one focussing on programming, another on networks, and another on something else). ---
**Author:** ![turner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/22d042/32.png) [@turner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/turner)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/38 "2003-01-25T01:16:36Z")
My university (UIC) also had weed-out classes for engineers also. the core curriculum had two EE courses–both with 50% drop out rates. The first was basic circuits whic I didn’t find really difficult, but the second was digital electronics. 25% 1st test, 25% second test 50% final for a grading profile. I failed the first and second tests miserably, but couldn’t afford to drop it. So I got a group of fellow losers and studies all night. I must have received 100% on the final because I finished the class with a “C”. This EE wannabe quickly became an ME after that class. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171/39 "2003-01-25T18:11:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ftg \* > One place I taught at had as a _goal_ a 50% flush rate in the first year and a 60% flush rate on top of that for the 1st 2nd year course. That’s sad. I like my alma mater better: impossible to get in, but they don’t kick you out. The toys were fun, too. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-difficult-majors-in-engineering-sciences/150171.md?page=1)