# Most dominant pitcher vs. greatest hitter **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 17, 2013, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722 "2013-07-17T02:51:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/21 "2013-07-17T05:57:12Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Sorry, when I saw Gibson’s name, it just hit me. I see what you did there. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/22 "2013-07-17T13:39:33Z")
There are [14 seasons with an OBP over .500](http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=b#gotresults&as=result_batter&offset=0&sum=0&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2013&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&is_rookie=&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&bats=any&throws=any&exactness=anypos&games_min_max=min&games_prop=50&games_tot=&pos_1=1&pos_2=1&pos_3=1&pos_4=1&pos_5=1&pos_6=1&pos_7=1&pos_8=1&pos_9=1&pos_10=1&qualifiersSeason=battingtitle&minpasValS=502&mingamesValS=100&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minpasValC=3000&mingamesValC=1000&orderby=onbase_perc&order_by_asc=1&c1criteria=onbase_perc&c1gtlt=gt&c1val=.500&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&c3gtlt=eq&c3val=0&c4gtlt=eq&c4val=0&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1) where the batter qualified for the league batting title. 3 of them over .550. Bonds has two of them, Teddy Ballgame, the other. Ruth has the next two highest. I’ll take Bond’s video game God mode-like 2004 season with .362/.609/.812 as my batter. Here’s Bond’s [stats](http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/batter_vs_pitcher.cgi?year=0&n1=bondsba01&id=bondsba01&batter=bondsba01#gotresults&batter=bondsba01&min_year_game=2004&max_year_game=2004&post=1&opp_id=&throws=any&opponent_status=&c1criteria=&c1gtlt=eq&c1val=0&c2criteria=&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&orderby=PA&orderby_dir=desc&orderby_second=Name&orderby_dir_second=asc&ajax=1&submitter=1) vs every pitcher he faced that year, sorted by highest PAs. A lot of this is going to be LOL-sample size, but you can see how Bonds did vs. some of the better names that year, like Randy Johnson, David Wells, Jake Peavy, and Roger Clemens. [Clemens](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/clemero02.shtml) didn’t have the insane year in 2004 that he would have in 2005, despite winning the Cy Young, but a 145 ERA+ and a 1.157 WHIP over 214.1 IP isn’t too shabby. The voters probably liked his 18-4 record too. Bonds went 0/2 with 2 K and 1 IBB vs. Clemens. FWIW, Clemens was the first guy I thought of when I thought of dominant pitchers. Though I really like the Gibson choice too. [Wells](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/wellsda01.shtml) had a meh year in 2004, but did pretty well vs. Bonds: 19 PA, 5/17 with 2 doubles, 2 HR, 2 BB, and 2 SO. That translates into .294/.368/.765. Nobody else who saw him more than 4 times, had a sub .400 OBP vs Bonds that year. [Randy Johnson](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsra05.shtml) was just filthy in 2004, despite what must have been god-awful run support in AZ, given his 16-14 record. 2nd in Cy Young voting, 245.2 IP, 2.60 ERA, 176 ERA+, 0.900 WHIP, 290 SO, 6.5 H/9. Compare with Clemens’s line above. Voters gotta’ be voters, I guess. Against Bonds, he did very well, comparatively. Bonds had 15 PA; 3-11, all singles; with 2 walks, 1 intentional; and 2 HBP. No strikeouts, interestingly. That yields a strange looking .273/.467/.273 line. So, given that Johnson and Clemens were about as dominant starting pitchers as there were in 2004, and both managed sub .500 OBP when facing Bonds, I’m thinking that the pitcher’s going to win this hypothetical duel. Especially when I’m not cherry-picking the best pitching years ever in this match-up. Relief pitchers count, I guess, per the OP. If you look at seasons with 50 innings pitched or more, and a WHIP below 0.7, you end up with 11 qualifying seasons. [Sort that by ERA+](http://www.baseball-reference.com/play-index/season_finder.cgi?type=p#gotresults&as=result_pitcher&offset=0&sum=0&min_year_season=1901&max_year_season=2013&min_season=1&max_season=-1&min_age=0&max_age=99&is_rookie=&lg_ID=lgAny&lgAL_team=tmAny&lgNL_team=tmAny&lgFL_team=tmAny&lgAA_team=tmAny&lgPL_team=tmAny&lgUA_team=tmAny&lgNA_team=tmAny&isActive=either&isHOF=either&isAllstar=either&throws=any&role=anyrole&games_started=60&games_relieved=80&qualifiersSeason=minips&minIpValS=50&minDecValS=14&mingamesValS=40&qualifiersCareer=nomin&minIpValC=1000&minDecValC=100&mingamesValC=200&orderby=earned_run_avg_plus&order_by_asc=1&layout=full&c1criteria=whip&c1gtlt=lt&c1val=.75&c2criteria=&c2gtlt=eq&c2val=0&c3criteria=&c3gtlt=eq&c3val=0&c4criteria=&c4gtlt=eq&c4val=0&c5criteria=&c5gtlt=eq&c5val=1.0&c6criteria=&location=pob&locationMatch=is&pob=&pod=&pcanada=&pusa=&ajax=1&submitter=1) and [Dennis Eckersley](http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/e/eckerde01.shtml)’s 1990 campaign stands out. 73.1 IP, 0.61 ERA, 0.614 WHIP, 9.0 K/9, 0.5 BB/9, and a gaudy 603 ERA+. 0.2 HR/9 too, which is kinda’ important if you’re facing someone like Bonds or Williams. Not the guy I’d have picked, but an interesting choice. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/23 "2013-07-17T22:18:26Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > There’s a reason .300 is considered good hitting. The pitcher wins. If a pitcher allows his opponents to bat .300, I assure you he isn’t going to be winning very damn often. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/24 "2013-07-17T22:19:56Z")
I think I’d watch a supercut of Bob Gibson beaning Ty Cobb a hundred times in a row. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/25 "2013-07-17T22:29:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If a pitcher allows his opponents to bat .300, I assure you he isn’t going to be winning very damn often. I know that. I was pointing out that even a good hitter will fail far more often than he succeeds. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/26 "2013-07-17T22:34:33Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > For hitter I’ll go Rod Carew. I watched games where he’d stand in the box and foul off pitch after pitch for an eternity and the jump all over the one he really liked. In the early 80’s he went 50 for his first 100 AB’s of the season. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2013, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722/27 "2013-07-18T08:37:02Z")
2001 Barry Bonds against 1999 Pedro Martinez. Pedro Wins. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-dominant-pitcher-vs-greatest-hitter/663722.md?page=1)