# Most effective SF small arm for the modern world
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 24, 2012, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900 "2012-05-24T01:04:56Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/21 "2012-05-24T10:45:37Z")
I’d like to make the case for Warhammer 40K’s Laspistol; While it’s the weakest weapon in the setting, on present day Earth it could punch through more or less any armour in use (since it’s established that even Imperial Guard flack armour’s many times better than anything from real life).
Plus it has low recoil (characters in expanded universe novels and the game almost always fire it one handed), a huge ammo capacity, the power cells can be reloaded by leaving them in sunlight and because the setting treats technology as arcane magic, it’s most likely very resilient.
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### Author:  [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/22 "2012-05-24T11:38:18Z")
> [@terentii](#):
>
> I always wondered why so much of a phaser’s energy was normally wasted in a continuous (and hard-to-keep-on-target) beam when in most cases a good quick blast would have sufficed.
The irony in that statement is that in the post-TOS eps phasers were never used with a continuous beam, even though you’d think that you could easily adjust your aim and place the beam on-target, but no, it was always a quick (and usually ineffective) burst.
I think phasers are pretty worthless because they just drop this futuristic weapon into a tactical situation very akin to a Wild West shootout-newfangled weapon, ancient tactics. If the Federation ever faced someone who refused to fight the way the Fed fought, they would get owned pretty quickly (and anyone willing to quote a Trek novel or fanfic which does just that will get my thanks).
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### Author:  [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/23 "2012-05-24T12:27:24Z")
> [@Max\_the\_Immortal](#):
>
> Phasers are almost worthless as weapons, judging by their on-screen performance. Nearly every time their “kill” setting is used against an enemy, said enemy is either merely knocked over (“stunned” would be a bit generous) or barely slowed down at all. On the rare occasion that they do injure someone (a mundane humanoid), it’s clear that a “phaser burn” is much less grievous than a bullet wound. I don’t care what it says in the technical manuals because they’re clearly lying. They might be useful as non-lethal weapons for police, but as a replacement for tasers, not real guns.
To be fair, this is where we start to get—especially in later Trek series’—into the murky boundary between “the weapon is functionally inferior” and “the weapon is inferior as used because the writers are unwilling or unable to to craft quality combat scenes.”
Case in point…
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> I think phasers are pretty worthless because they just drop this futuristic weapon into a tactical situation very akin to a Wild West shootout-newfangled weapon, ancient tactics. If the Federation ever faced someone who refused to fight the way the Fed fought, they would get owned pretty quickly (and anyone willing to quote a Trek novel or fanfic which does just that will get my thanks).
Try [_The Siege of AR-558_](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Siege_of_AR-558_%28episode%29). 😃 Powerful story, sure, but at one point, the Feds struggle to defend a position that could have been adequately covered by some landsers with a Maxim Gun.
Now, some of the shortcomings of away teams, I could understand, or at least forgive—those guys are basically a glorified shore patrol, usually protecting scientists or dealing with unruly visitors, not a full-on Marine detachment. But when you get to DS9, with a full-on war going on, this starts getting truly baffling.
Unless they were _trying_ to make a point about an advanced, generally peaceful future civilization being institutionally unprepared for large-scale ground war, possibly stemming from an over-reliance and cultural romanticization of their space force’s abilities…which, interesting as that _would_ have been, I don’t believe was the case. I think they just wanted _Sgt. Sisko’s Weird War Tales._ :smack:
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### Author:  [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/24 "2012-05-24T13:12:10Z")
Personally I’d go for a [Lazy Gun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Against_a_Dark_Background) but I suspect it’s outside the allowed parameters.
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### Author:  [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/25 "2012-05-24T13:20:22Z")
M41A “Pulse Rifle”, 10mm caseless ammo with underslung Grenade launcher
duct-taped to a M240 flamethrower
Si
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### Author:  [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/26 "2012-05-24T13:36:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> The irony in that statement is that in the post-TOS eps phasers were never used with a continuous beam, even though you’d think that you could easily adjust your aim and place the beam on-target, but no, it was always a quick (and usually ineffective) burst.
Sorry, this I do **not** remember, unless we differ radically on what constitutes a “burst.” F’rinstance, I have vivid images of the Enterprise-D crew zapping Borgs with continuous beams (until they “adapted” to the frequency, of course), and Riker and Picard shooting that evil dude at Starfleet HQ until his head popped open and all those crawly things came skittering out.
Unfortunately, I haven’t seen enough episodes of DS9 to make a judgement there, but it seems the situation was pretty much the same on VOYAGER.
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### Author:  [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/27 "2012-05-24T13:38:54Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#):
>
> IIRC a plot point in a ST ep revolved around some disintegration residue left behind by the victim, and Data (I think) was able to figure out who it was…
My point is that no CSI unit today would be able to find anything. Unless we posit that they have tricorders…?
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### Author:  [@Barking\_Dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barking_Dog)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/28 "2012-05-24T13:50:08Z")
Does a knife missile count as a sidearm?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/29 "2012-05-24T14:43:21Z")
I rather pack a SHAAK from [John Barnes’ TimelineWars.](http://www.amazon.com/Pattons-Spaceship-Timeline-Wars-Barnes/dp/0061056596) It manufactures its own ammunition out of scrap material placed in a hopper in the grip, so no matter where you are, you can always get resupplied with ammo. It also has a number of settings, including one that fires a hyper-velocity pellet that, when it encounters flesh, flies around inside the body reducing the target to a bag of goo. Hit a finger and you kill your opponent.
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### Author:  [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/30 "2012-05-24T14:51:51Z")
> [@Barking\_Dog](#):
>
> Does a knife missile count as a sidearm?
I was going to say Culture memoryform weapons, along the same lines. Will kill anything, and can be disguised as anything.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/31 "2012-05-24T14:54:33Z")
> [@beowulff](#):
>
> Clearly, the TOS phaser type 2 is the winner.
Better than Gary Seven’s servo pen?
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### Author:  [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/32 "2012-05-24T15:18:47Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#):
>
> I was going to say Culture memoryform weapons, along the same lines. Will kill anything, and can be disguised as anything.
I was wondering about the Culture, but thought their weaponry came too close to the OP’s restrictions against anything too God-like. I guess for added lulz, we could make your weapon out of [E-Dust](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look_to_Windward). The comparatively primitive—it’s not even sentient!—weapon from [A Gift From The Culture](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Gift_from_the_Culture) might fit the OP. (Aside, are knife missiles sentient?)
I’m a fan of some of the more esoteric weapons in Alastair Reynolds’s, _[Revelation Space](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_in_Revelation_Space)_ universe: Bosers, portable Antimatter accelerators/projectors, Causality editors, even the ‘killer jewelry’ from [Turquoise Days](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turquoise_Days_(novella)).
Another interesting multi-use weapon from the Laundry series I mentioned earlier is the [Hand of Glory](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_of_Glory). Unlike the wiki, the Laundry’s HoG blows stuff up good. Or hides you, depending on your incantation.
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/33 "2012-05-24T15:20:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> If your potential targets have no armor and you’re not concerned with eliminating all traces of the bodies, a .38 is as good as a phaser.
A phaser has no recoil. \*Much \*easier to aim.
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### Author:  [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/34 "2012-05-24T15:28:03Z")
If the “Soft Weapon” is out, then I’ll go with the tasp from Larry Niven’s Known Space universe. Especially the puppeteer version. Direct stimulation of the pleasure centre of the brain? Sounds like fun!
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### Author:  [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/35 "2012-05-24T15:29:49Z")
MIB - [Noisy Cricket](http://meninblack.wikia.com/wiki/Noisy_Cricket).
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### Author:  [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/36 "2012-05-24T15:33:46Z")
The thing about typical sci-fi zorch guns, especially as they are seen in the movies, is that they don’t appear to be any more effective than firearms while requiring a level of technology orders of magnitude more complex. The lack of recoil is about the only real world advantage they bring to the table. If I were writing hard science fiction, I’d quite likely have any weapons be conventional firearms updated in materials and manufacture, but still using a chemical reaction to propel a projectile at the target.
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### Author:  [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/37 "2012-05-24T15:38:00Z")
Those weirding modules from the \*Dune \*movie that turn aggressive sounds into concussive waves. Hook them up with a tape deck blasting N.W.A.
[QUOTE=hogarth]
If the “Soft Weapon” is out, then I’ll go with the tasp from Larry Niven’s Known Space universe. Especially the puppeteer version. Direct stimulation of the pleasure centre of the brain? Sounds like fun!
[/QUOTE]
They already made [that movie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgazmo).
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### Author:  [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/38 "2012-05-24T15:45:28Z")
> [@Scumpup](#):
>
> The lack of recoil is about the only real world advantage they bring to the table.
Thought of one other advantage. At least in ST:TOS, they seem to send blasts at the speed of light (photon torpedoes don’t, oddly enough, but phaser beams do, or at least, some significant fraction of c).
\*Really \*hard to dodge. Also, I’ll fan-wank that an energy shield, such as the ones that protect ships, could protect armies in terrestrial warfare, and that a phaser would help wear that down, whereas a conventional firearm wouldn’t.
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### Author:  [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/39 "2012-05-24T16:06:14Z")
> [@bup](#):
>
> Thought of one other advantage. At least in ST:TOS, they seem to send blasts at the speed of light (photon torpedoes don’t, oddly enough, but phaser beams do, or at least, some significant fraction of c).
>
> \*Really \*hard to dodge. Also, I’ll fan-wank that an energy shield, such as the ones that protect ships, could protect armies in terrestrial warfare, and that a phaser would help wear that down, whereas a conventional firearm wouldn’t.
For spacecraft engaging in combat at enormous distances, I concede the speed advantage. For individual people engaging in combat, bullets are already going too fast to dodge. Misses are due to bad aim, improperly judged distance, and other factors. Now that I think about it, though, another advantage to the zorch guns is that they shoot directly to point of aim at any distance. The burst doesn’t drop due to gravity as a bullet does. Even so, there were a number of advanced infantry rifles produced for testing in the 90’s that achieved much the same idea by driving a small projectile, a flechette basically, at crazy high velocities. I particularly liked this offering from[Steyr-Mannlicher.](http://www.steyr-aug.com/acr2002.htm) Despite the impression that page gives, Steyr hasn’t done anything with it since the 90’s. Materials weren’t quite up to where they needed to be for a design like that. Something like that done up with futuristic composites and such, though, would be a believable sci-fi gun that is still really cool. Imagine it with an actual _working_ smart-grenade launcher mounted under the barrel…
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### Author:  [@psiekier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psiekier)
#### Post date: [May 24, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-effective-sf-small-arm-for-the-modern-world/622900/40 "2012-05-24T16:13:27Z")
> [@Bisected8](#):
>
> I’d like to make the case for Warhammer 40K’s Laspistol; While it’s the weakest weapon in the setting, on present day Earth it could punch through more or less any armour in use (since it’s established that even Imperial Guard flack armour’s many times better than anything from real life).
>
> Plus it has low recoil (characters in expanded universe novels and the game almost always fire it one handed), a huge ammo capacity, the power cells can be reloaded by leaving them in sunlight and because the setting treats technology as arcane magic, it’s most likely very resilient.
That’s why your ammo roll is 2+ there, citizen.
> [@si\_blakely](#):
>
> M41A “Pulse Rifle”, 10mm caseless ammo with underslung Grenade launcher
Lieutenant, what do those pulse rifles fire? 😉
I might go for the Zorg ZF-1.
It’s light. Handle’s adjustable for easy carrying, good for righties and lefties. Breaks down into four parts. Undetectable by x-ray (ideal for quick, discreet interventions). A word on firepower: titanium recharger, three thousand round clip with bursts of three to three hundred, and with the Replay button - another Zorg invention - it’s even easier. One shot - and Replay sends every following shot to the same location.
… and to finish the job, all the Zorg oldies-but-goldies: rocket launcher… arrow launcher, with exploding or poisonous gas heads, very practical… our famous net launcher… the always-efficient flamethrower (my favorite)… and for the grand finale, the all-new “Ice-cube System”!
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