# Most evil person ever who reformed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 29, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291 "2014-07-29T01:08:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/21 "2014-07-29T17:32:07Z")
Nelson Mandella could be in the running. He started out as a possible terrorist (depending on how one defines it) and ended up being one of the more respected men in history. ---
**Author:** ![SuperDopaminergic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@SuperDopaminergic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuperDopaminergic)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/22 "2014-07-29T17:41:30Z")
Probably a stretch to say he ‘reformed’ in the sense of becoming a monk, but Roman dictator [Lucius Cornelius Sulla](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulla) spent most of his life fighting to maintain the Roman aristocracy’s grip on power, won a series of civil wars that he largely provoked, gained absolute power, instituted a reign of terror, and then tried to implement reforms to restore the Roman republic and ultimately resigned the dictatorship. Probably about the best you can hope for from a brutal warlord. ---
**Author:** ![seal\_cleaner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@seal\_cleaner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seal_cleaner)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/23 "2014-07-29T23:23:15Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Wallace himself apologized later in life, after his paralysis IIRC, for his hateful race-baiting earlier in life. Many other segregationists softened their hearts as well, but he was probably the most notable both as a leader and as a repenter. > > There must have been cases in South Africa of former apartheid supporters publicly reversing themselves too. Wallace’s racism was at least partly political expediency. If I recall correctly, he lost an election early in his career, to an ardent racist, and then told an aide, “I’ll never be out-niggered again!” And, for a time, he wasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2014, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/24 "2014-07-29T23:57:34Z")
I was forgetting one of my favorite quotes from Carl Sagan, regarding judge Hugo Black. "When permitted to listen to alternative opinions and engage in substantive debate, people have been known to change their minds. It can happen. For example, Hugo Black, in his youth, was a member of the Ku Klux Klan; he later became a Supreme Court justice and was one of the leaders in the historic Supreme Court decisions, partly based on the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, that affirmed the civil rights of all Americans. It was said that when he was a young man he dressed up in white robes and scared black folks; when he got older, he dressed up in black robes and scared white folks." -The Demon-Haunted World ---
**Author:** ![EdwinAmi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5fc32e/32.png) [@EdwinAmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwinAmi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/25 "2014-07-30T03:42:09Z")
Barbara Streisand ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/26 "2014-07-30T04:38:42Z")
I entered “Soldier turned monk” in [my favorite search engine](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=soldier+turned+monk) and found the following: [A Toast to the Black Monk of Thamkrabok](http://www.thefix.com/content/elegy-black-monk-thamkrabok): “For over 30 years, a charismatic Vietnam vet and mercenary named Gordon Baltimore helped hardcore addicts recover with a controversial regimen at a Thai monastery. A former heroin addict, he died last week at the age of 60.” Vietnam vet [Claude AnShin Thomas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claude_AnShin_Thomas) killed several hundred Vietnamese people as a soldier. He was injured and awarded various medals, contracted PTSD and became a Buddhist monk and advocate of non-violence. TVtropes describes [the Retired Badass](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RetiredBadass), the [Badass Preacher](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BadassPreacher) as well as perception that [All monks know Kung Fu](http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AllMonksKnowKungFu). Even Catholic Monks! Although this veers even farther from the OP, I’ll add a link to [5 Priests Who Turned Badass When Things Got Critical](http://www.cracked.com/article_20490_5-priests-who-turned-badass-when-things-got-critical.html?wa_user1=3&wa_user2=History&wa_user3=article&wa_user4=feature_module). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/27 "2014-07-30T05:48:26Z")
I don’t think just serving in Vietnam counts as being evil. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/28 "2014-07-30T05:54:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t think just serving in Vietnam counts as being evil. Yeah, I wasn’t sure either. I thought that Thomas’ mercenary work might qualify though. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/29 "2014-07-30T15:03:57Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > Barbara Streisand Cite? And that’s “Barbra.” [Stanley “Tootie” Williams](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams) founded the Crips, killed people, and then reformed while on Death Row. It didn’t save his ass, however–he still got the lethal injection. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/30 "2014-07-30T15:44:19Z")
[Nathan Bedford Forrest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest) was a Confederate lieutenant general, slave trader and first Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. Late in life he renounced racism and violence in a famous speech given to a black audience. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/31 "2014-07-30T17:59:55Z")
Nikita Kruschev. As one of Stalin’s henchmen he delivered more deaths in the Moscow area than his Politburo quota demanded of him. As leader of the USSR he turned out to be relatively liberal. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/32 "2014-07-30T18:15:28Z")
Malcolm X? He started out advocating violence as a member of the Nation of Islam, then converted to Sunni Islam, and renounced his old ways. (Of course, shortly afterwards, he was assassinated by a member of the NOI, possibly on the orders of the heads of the organization) ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/33 "2014-07-31T07:11:36Z")
> [@EdwinAmi](#): > > Barbara Streisand Aside from the misspelling . . . HUH??? And we can add Robert McNamara, architect of the Viet-Nam War. He later reversed his support for many of the policies in that war. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/34 "2014-07-31T11:55:29Z")
Well, millions of American and Commonwealth soldiers wanted to kill Hitler, but in the end, he ended up shot by someone rather horrid. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/35 "2014-07-31T14:38:55Z")
I’m a far better person than I was 20 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![TailGunnerTrout](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/71e660/32.png) [@TailGunnerTrout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TailGunnerTrout)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/36 "2014-07-31T16:21:08Z")
Since it is impossible to prove that anyone has ever truly reformed this is a nonsensical question. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/37 "2014-07-31T16:38:51Z")
> [@TailGunnerTrout](#): > > Since it is impossible to prove that anyone has ever truly reformed this is a nonsensical question. **TailGunnerTrout** , so far you’ve made a total of four posts, every one of which does nothing but object to the very existence of the thread in which it appears. That schtick’s getting old. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/38 "2014-07-31T17:31:24Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > A Godwin right out of the bat. . You are misusing the term, which is very common. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/39 "2014-07-31T18:04:59Z")
> [@TailGunnerTrout](#): > > Since it is impossible to prove that anyone has ever truly reformed this is a nonsensical question. And your post is an example of threadshitting, where someone posts just to be obnoxious about the topic of the thread. You are not required to agree, but if you have nothing constructive to add, simply move on without posting. [You may also wish to review the Warning issued for this post.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17597673#post17597673) [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291/40 "2014-07-31T18:12:18Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > I entered “Soldier turned monk” in [my favorite search engine](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=soldier+turned+monk) and found the following: St. Ignatius Loyola would have to be up there somewhere; he started as a soldier, and something of a ne’er do well, and ended up the founder of the Jesuit order, and a legitimate Catholic saint. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-evil-person-ever-who-reformed/694291.md?page=3)