# Most impressive franchise from the most mediocre beginning **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** movies, star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [June 2, 2024, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401 "2024-06-02T00:39:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/81 "2024-06-03T13:47:29Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > In 1989 JatFM would have been in it’s 3rd season out of five. It isn’t like it was some obscure show at the time Yeah, my parents and I watched it. I think it was pretty well known. I think the surprise isn’t its existence, but that it was beating Seinfeld, a show that had big impact. Humble beginnings for sure. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/82 "2024-06-03T15:06:01Z")
Not Star Wars in general, but I don’t think anyone would have predicted Ahsoka Tano would become so popular. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/83 "2024-06-03T15:26:43Z")
If we are including individual characters from Star Wars— Boba Fett debuted in an animated sequence in the infamous _Star Wars Holiday Special_. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/84 "2024-06-03T16:14:37Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > But the thing I _dislike_ about all subsequent movies in the franchise is that they end with an army of “helpers” coming in to take out the bad guys: Navy Frogmen, Ninjas, the Mafia, the Space Marines, and so on. This weakens the character of Bond while being downright ludicrous. I agree that most Bond films are ludicrous (that’s been kind of the point of the franchise for decades, they generally leave gritty realism to others). But as I remember them, most of the endings involve the ‘cavalry’ arriving to assist only _after_ Bond has foiled the supervillain’s masterplan and disposed of him and his chief henchman. Generally they just give Bond a lift home, rather than being shown as actively involved in the denouement. Which if anything strengthens the character, not weakens it - Bond is the only one capable of saving the day, his backup team are incidental. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/85 "2024-06-03T16:28:19Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Not Star Wars in general, but I don’t think anyone would have predicted Ahsoka Tano would become so popular. Good example of an emerging character. She was met with dislike and people pointing out what a plot-hole it is for Anakin to have a Padawan. Eventually, she became very popular because she’s actually a really good character. She even fights Darth Vader at at least one point. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/86 "2024-06-03T19:31:11Z")
Transformers. Starting out as a Hasbro toyline repackaging Takara’s Diaclone and Microchange toys as sentient robots from another planet in 1984. They got the usual 80s cartoon and comic series (and a movie) to help sell the toys. The storyline and toys got reimagined every few years since then and a cartoon series typically accompanies every iteration. They also have a hugely successful movie series that started in 2007 and the next movie is scheduled for September of this year. Transformers toys include different sizes and price points as well as age appropriateness to get fans from little tots all the way to grown up nostalgia fans. Other 80s franchises are still out there. Hasbro is still making G.I. Joe toys but those are expensive and aimed at adult fans. I don’t think kids are clamoring for He-Man or Thundercats toys either, but somehow Transformers keeps rolling out and making money. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/87 "2024-06-03T22:02:25Z")
This one is the most jarring for me. They go from small-time hoodlums hijacking semi-trucks to fund their street-racing, to an elite counterespionage force doing battle with James Bond-style villains and even flying into space. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/88 "2024-06-03T23:38:39Z")
And then there was the _Avengers_ film (the Jude Law one), which was just so horrifically bad it defies description. ---
**Author:** ![cormac262](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@cormac262](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cormac262)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2024, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/89 "2024-06-03T23:49:32Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > The Godfather began as a middling novel by Mario Puzo… “Middling novel” ??? From Wikipedia _“The novel remained on [The New York Times Best Seller list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Best_Seller_list) for 67 weeks and sold over nine million copies in two years.”_ The book was a huge hit as well as the movies (except the 3rd one) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/90 "2024-06-04T00:04:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And then there was the _Avengers_ film (the Jude Law one), which was just so horrifically bad it defies description. I think you juded when you should’ve ralphed. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/91 "2024-06-04T00:30:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And then there was the _Avengers_ film (the Jude Law one), which was just so horrifically bad it defies description. I saw it in the theater. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/92 "2024-06-04T00:56:39Z")
_ **Columbo** _ stumbled at first. It took two pilots three years apart to sell the series to NBC. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/93 "2024-06-04T01:39:48Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And then there was the _Avengers_ film (the Jude Law one), which was just so horrifically bad it defies description. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think you juded when you should’ve ralphed. For those who never saw the film, it starred Ralph Finnes as Steed and Uma Thurman as Mrs. Peel. The abomination was so horrible that I removed it from my memories. Why did you bring it back? Why? I always thought that Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson should have played the parts. They would have been perfect. Finnes and Thurman … weren’t. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/94 "2024-06-04T02:11:34Z")
Back to Star Wars (partially to cleanse our palates of an inferior Steed & Peel)… we were astonished at how our children became _huge_ Star Wars fans after only watching one movie (“Star Wars”, with no roman numeral, no sequels, and certainly no _shudder_ prequels on the horizon). While other franchises had constant new media coming out to keep kids’ interest high, our kids kept playing Han and Chewy and Luke and Leia, and searching for specific action figures, all based on a single film. It really is the most true to the Jungian Space-faring Archetypes, and the most “fun” of the entire franchise. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/95 "2024-06-04T05:50:16Z")
Even more humble than that… about two months before the Holiday Special, Boba Fett walked with Darth Vader in a random° California [city parade](https://www.bobafettfanclub.com/fettpedia/san-anselmo-country-fair-day-and-parade/). °: not so random because Lucas [lived in San Anselmo](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/star-wars-legend-boba-fett-first-appeared-in-a-local-parade%3famp) at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/96 "2024-06-04T07:32:01Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I think you juded when you should’ve ralphed. Oops. A sign of how hard I’ve worked to scrub it from my memory. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/97 "2024-06-04T15:10:27Z")
> [@cormac262](#): > > “Middling novel” ??? From Wikipedia _“The novel remained on [The New York Times Best Seller list](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_York_Times_Best_Seller_list) for 67 weeks and sold over nine million copies in two years.”_ > > The book was a huge hit as well as the movies (except the 3rd one) Well, “middling” is a pretty good description of its artistic merit. In fact, it may be generous. I enjoyed reading it, but it’s pretty pulpy with some goofy narrative choices (e.g., the chapters on Sonny’s girlfriend). The movie, of course, is a masterpiece. ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/98 "2024-06-04T15:14:39Z")
That’s what I was about to say. It was popular but not critically acclaimed, and didn’t win any awards that I know of. If not for the films, I’d guess it would largely be forgotten now. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/99 "2024-06-04T15:43:48Z")
Like Jaws. I think even Jurrasic Park is pretty lame. Congo and Sphere by Michael Crichton, though, were a lot better and also much MUCH better than their movies. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2024, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401/100 "2024-06-04T16:56:42Z")
I kind of liked the Godfather novel. Yes, the giant vagina story could have gone away, though long discursive novels were in fashion at the time, but the story was good, and Puzo could turn a phrase. My favorite line was when Carlo opens the door, expecting to get good news and before anyone says anything he sees that Michael knows his treachery. “Their faces were grave, like men coming to tell an old friend bad news.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-impressive-franchise-from-the-most-mediocre-beginning/1002401.md?page=6)