# Most influencial ANIMAL in human history? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055 "2003-07-03T16:14:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lightkeeper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lightkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightkeeper)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/61 "2003-07-05T16:40:04Z")
Well… judging by all replies so far, I think that this should be the ordering (for all the reasons listed)… 1 - the dog; 2 - cattle; including sheep and cows; 3 - the horse Of course, this is assuming insects, earthworms etc. are out of the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/62 "2003-07-05T17:41:16Z")
Cats everywhere are rolling their eyes… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/63 "2003-07-05T17:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kal \* > \*\*Well, the thing is that hampsters don’t exist. It’s true. There is no such thing as a hampster. > > Now, if you had talked about hamsters then I’d agree with you.\*\* :smack: Learn something new every day, I guess… ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/64 "2003-07-05T21:30:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jennalynn \* > \*\*Thanks. I didn’t know anything about the goat’s history. Unless I’ve read something wrong, though, cows and sheep were, according to our timeline, domesticated earlier. Since they could also provide milk, meat, and skin/hair, wouldn’t that put the dog back on top? \*\* Sorry, my brain must have been muddled while posting while tired at 2am yesterday. In my posts I meant to say SHEEP instead of goats. I think that the influence of sheep and dogs have both been so huge that I’d put them as a tie. Sheep and dogs were domesticated at about the same time, or maybe sheep a little earlier. Sorry for any confusion. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/65 "2003-07-05T22:39:15Z")
If Hampsters don’t exist, why do you find them [dancing on the web?](http://www.hampsterdance.com/hampsterdanceredux.html) I vote for the dog. There is even a theory that the only reason man survived and Neanderthal didn’t is because Man had dogs. They became our ears, noses, and teeth, which allowed us to devote more brainpower to abstract thought. If this theory is correct, we _evolved_ with dogs, as a symbiotic pair. You can’t get much more important than that. Dogs were indispensible to herding cultures. European farming would have had a hell of a time without the dog. Besides, while horses today have faded in usefulness, dogs are still an integral part of our lives. Any large city has tens or hundreds of thousands of dogs in it. They lead blind people, work with police, and give millions of people companionship. Anyway, when this thread first started, I thought the question was going to be whether there is an INDIVIDUAL animal that was important to humans. Are there any historically significant animals? Animals that caused big changes? Alexander the Great’s horse? Paul Revere’s horse? Any famous dogs that alerted a country to a surprise attack? Anything like that? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2003, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/66 "2003-07-05T23:26:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waenara \* > Sheep and dogs were domesticated at about the same time, or maybe sheep a little earlier. No. Sorry, but I trust my Encyclopædia Britannica more. It says clearly that dogs where the first animal to be domesticated, at about 12.000 BCE. Cattle and sheep show up around 9.000 BCE. EB goes on: > [@](#): > > [Dogs] were important in hunter-gatherer societies as hunting allies and bodyguards against predators. When livestock were domesticated about 7,000 to 9,000 years ago, dogs served as herders and guardians of sheep, goats, and cattle. Some scientists even claim that it would not be possible for a race to achieve civilisation without a sponsor race. Man made dogs and gave them ‘mind’ or a sense of ‘self’. But some even claim that dogs made man. Groups of humans who were willing to take in a stray pup were rewarded with a loyal and fierce hunter and guard. That group would then be more competitive than the group who shut out the dogs. Even before we used horses, we were breeding dogs for specific purposes: EB: > [@](#): > > Fossil remains suggest that five distinct types of dogs existed by the beginning of the Bronze Age (about 4500 BC). They were the mastiffs, wolf-type dogs, sight hounds (such as the Saluki or greyhound), pointing dogs, and herding dogs. This suggests that humans of those days actively planned for what kind of dog they wanted, not something done with cattle, sheep or goats at the time. Dogs were of course crucial when we started settling down to agriculture. Guarding the fields, herding animals ASF. The farmers in the middle east probably hunted as well, and used dogs at the time. The use of the horse was certainly a revolution, in many ways. However, the dogs were with us when we started out. And even if most dogs are pets, today, there are a large number who are still working dogs, and there doesn’t seem to be anything that can replace them (hunting, police work, narcotics, herding, helping the blind, rescue, tracking). Horses are still around, but at least in the western world, they are - to a large extent - reduced to pets, albeit big pets. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/67 "2003-07-06T00:53:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\*Anyway, when this thread first started, I thought the question was going to be whether there is an INDIVIDUAL animal that was important to humans. Are there any historically significant animals? Animals that caused big changes? Alexander the Great’s horse? Paul Revere’s horse? Any famous dogs that alerted a country to a surprise attack? Anything like that? \*\* Well, there’s Krypto. I’m sure that he’s saved the world at least once or twice. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/68 "2003-07-06T01:25:23Z")
[War dogs](http://community-2.webtv.net/Hahn-50thAP-K9/K9History/). > [@](#): > > Atilla the Hun, used giant Molossian dogs, precursors of the mastiff, and Talbots, ancestors of the bloodhound, in his campaigns. > > During the Middle Ages, war dogs were outfited with armor and frequently were used to defend caravans. > > And in the Seven Years War, Russian dogs were used as messengers by the army of Frederick the Great. > > Napoleon had dogs posted as sentries at the gates of Alexandria, in Egypt, to warn his troops of any attacks. > > Two centuries earlier, on this side of the Atlantic, they helped the Spaniards conquer the indians of Mexico and Peru. > > Then later on, it was the native North American Indians who were to develop the use of dogs for pack and draft work, as well as for sentry duty. > > In the early part of the 14th Century, the French Navy started to use attack dogs in St. Malo, France, to guard naval dock installations. These were used up to 1770, when they were abolished after a young naval officer was unfortunately killed by one of the dogs. > > The first recorded American Canine Corp was during the Seminole War of 1835, and again in 1842, in Florida and Louisana, where Cuban-bred bloodhounds were used by the army to track the indians and runaway slaves in the swamps! > > And during the bleakest time in the history of the United States, the Civil War, dogs were used as messengers, guards and as mascots. > > In 1884, the German Army established the first organize Military School for training war dogs at Lechernich, near Berlin; and in 1885 wrote the very first training manual for MWD. > > In 1898, during the Spanish-American War, dogs were used by Teddy’s Roughriders, as scouts in the jungles of Cuba. > > By the early part of the twentieth century most European countries were utilizing dogs in their armies and for police work. > > In 1904, Imperial Russia used ambulance dogs during the Russo-Japanese War; trained by a British dog fancier, who later went on to establish the first Army Dog School in England, at the start of The Great War. > > The Bulgarians and Italians employed dogs as sentries during the war in the Balkans and in Tripoli, as did the British on the Abor Expedition in the Himalayas. > > Dogs were used in sizable numbers in both World War I and II, particularly by the Germans, French, Belgians; and proved to be of considerable value! > > In 1988, the Israeli Special Forces sent bomb carrying Rottweilers on a suicide mission, code named “Blue and Brown,” against enemy bunkers in Lebanon. But more about that later! > > And when the Berlin Wall came down, Nov. 9, 1989, the East German communist government was using 5,000 dogs just to patrol the wall and another 2,500 watch dogs plus 2,700 so called horse dogs to patrol their borders. > > During the Gulf War, at least 1,177 highly trained German Shepherds were use by the French forces to guard and protect their troops, supplies and aircraft. The USA used 88 teams. > > But it was initially during the days of the Roman Empire, that entire formations of attack dogs, frequently equipped with armour or spiked collars were sent into battle against the enemy as a recognized and effective instruments of offensive warfare. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/69 "2003-07-06T03:16:59Z")
I vote for the horse, and don’t think it is close. Just because the dog has been domesticated for a long time does not mean much. We’ve had combs for a lot longer than the internal combustion engine, but the latter is unquestionably more important. Horses provided transportation, “horsepower” before mechanisation that allowed for agriculture, and radically affected warfare. ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/70 "2003-07-06T03:40:13Z")
Still on the side of the dog here. But also still confused by the oft repeated horse/warfare thing. How is/was better warfare better for human civilization as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/71 "2003-07-06T03:52:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jennalynn \* > \*\*Still on the side of the dog here. But also still confused by the oft repeated horse/warfare thing. How is/was better warfare better for human civilization as a whole? \*\* Who said anything about better? The question is about “most influential”. The most influential person in the 20th century may well have been Hitler, but nobody would say he was the best person. ---
**Author:** ![Zenster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/cdc98d/32.png) [@Zenster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zenster)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/72 "2003-07-06T03:53:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by amarone \* > I vote for the horse, and don’t think it is close. Just because the dog has been domesticated for a long time does not mean much. We’ve had combs for a lot longer than the internal combustion engine, but the latter is unquestionably more important. > > Horses provided transportation, “horsepower” before mechanisation that allowed for agriculture, and radically affected warfare. Horsehockey! The horse is not even in the running (as it were). Horses were (and are) high maintenance animals. Dogs (on the other hand) can go out and feed themselves when supplies run short. Yes, horses can graze during clement seasons, but dogs can hunt year 'round and still come back to bite the b@lls off an assailant. Locomotion and mass transportation were invented yesterday compared with hunting and perimeter security. ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/73 "2003-07-06T03:55:08Z")
Oops, sorry, wishful thinking I guess. Forgot the actual original post… most influential. Ne’min. ---
**Author:** ![hebesphenomegacorona](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b9e5f3/32.png) [@hebesphenomegacorona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hebesphenomegacorona)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/74 "2003-07-06T04:55:45Z")
Opabinias! ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/75 "2003-07-06T09:38:13Z")
Fer chrissake. We had been farming for five thousand years before we tamed the horse. Dogs have been around since before we started building what is now known as civilisation. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/76 "2003-07-06T10:08:40Z")
Horses as “horsepower”, i.e., pulling plows, wagons, etc, is, I believe a rather recent phenomena. Until quite recently, horses were just too expensive to use for such mundane purposes. Fieldwork was done with oxen. Horses were for high muckity-mucks to ride about on (or behind, in chariots or what have you). Someone can correct me if I’m wrong about this. As for the question, I’m torn between dogs and cattle, myself. Yeah, dogs help with the hunting and anti-predation and such, but we already were hunting and fighting off predators. Cattle, on the other hand, were one of the prime factors in being able to move beyond hunting and gathering. Agriculture is the single most significant development in history (well, perhaps second after language), imho, which perhaps gives the edge to the kine. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/77 "2003-07-06T11:49:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Gaspode \* > \*\*Fer chrissake. > We had been farming for five thousand years before we tamed the horse. Dogs have been around since before we started building what is now known as civilisation. \*\* I repeat, what has length of domestication got to do with it? The question is “most influential”, not “longest standing”. ---
**Author:** ![amarone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@amarone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amarone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/78 "2003-07-06T12:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Gorsnak \* > \*\*Horses as “horsepower”, i.e., pulling plows, wagons, etc, is, I believe a rather recent phenomena. Until quite recently, horses were just too expensive to use for such mundane purposes. Fieldwork was done with oxen. Horses were for high muckity-mucks to ride about on (or behind, in chariots or what have you). Someone can correct me if I’m wrong about this. > > As for the question, I’m torn between dogs and cattle, myself. Yeah, dogs help with the hunting and anti-predation and such, but we already were hunting and fighting off predators. Cattle, on the other hand, were one of the prime factors in being able to move beyond hunting and gathering. Agriculture is the single most significant development in history (well, perhaps second after language), imho, which perhaps gives the edge to the kine. \*\* I agree with the premise of your final paragraph. Although dogs have been around for a long time, I don’t think they were very influential in that they were just used to assist in things that humans had done successfully (we didn’t die out) for many tens of thousands of years. So I’m with you on that. In determining “most influential”, I looked at three events as being most important (IMHO) in human history, in chronological order: - the rise of agriculture - the spread of people and creation of empires - the rise of industry For the rise of agriculture, the ox may well be the most influential as it created the ability to farm the earth. although horses _were_ used too, according to Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs and Steel. For the spread of empires, the horse wins out - the winners were the people that utilized horses. For the rise of industry, there is little influence of animals (beyond those millions that donated their bodies to the creation of fossil fuels). However, there would have been no industrial revolution without the previous agricultural revolution. Jared Diamond covers these topics well in Guns, Germs and Steel. Although he doesn’t “vote” for a most influential animal, I find his descriptions of the impact of horses to be more persuasive. Cattle come second. Actually, my real vote goes for the last species of non-hominid ape that is in our ancestral line. ---
**Author:** ![jennalynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a698b9/32.png) [@jennalynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jennalynn)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/79 "2003-07-06T12:33:32Z")
Well thought out post, Amarone. I don’t think the ox CREATED the ability to farm the earth, though. And what makes the last species of non-hominid ape any more important than any other of our ancestors? Interesting choices for most important events in human history. I might vote for the development of language, using tools, and the switch to being omnivores. Granted, animals weren’t very important in any of those, except as food, targets, and topics of conversation. I guess one thing you have to consider is whether or not you think it’s important that one event in history preceeded another, like building blocks. I mean, that something like the spread of empires might never have happened IF we hadn’t done such and such first. That may be one reason some people think that the length of time an animal has been around is important. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2003, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055/80 "2003-07-06T13:02:56Z")
The gorilla. Ancestors of ours, I think. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-influencial-animal-in-human-history/186055.md?page=5)