# Most interesting depictions of a Human VS Alien interstellar war? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282 "2016-10-21T21:14:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/1 "2016-10-21T21:14:19Z")
_Not_ alien invasions, although its fine if the conflict ends with an invasion, or destruction, of Earth. I don’t think spoilers are necessary as they are kind of a given in this sort of thread. Although I’ve never seen it I was reading an interesting thread on the Human/Minbari War depicted in the TV series Babylon 5, which was pretty much like an ancient Roman army taking on the entire modern US military with human forces being completely steam-rollered and almost resulting in the extinction of humanity because of a First Contact situation gone wrong. The underrated Space: Above and Beyond TV series also depicted a war between human and aliens though on much more even technological levels, I believe it was sparked by human expansion into alien space, and warnings being ignored or covered up because of commercial interests. The show finished after two seasons so we didn’t find out the ultimate outcome of the conflict. Any other examples? An outline of the main progress of the war and its cause would be appreciated. Any media is fine! Thank you 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/2 "2016-10-21T22:08:55Z")
Well, speaking of invasions, there’s Poul Anderson’s “People of the Wind,” where the humans invade the alien planet. Pretty good, a trifle fanciful, but very nice military SF. Poul Anderson’s entire Flandry cycle is good, solid, dependable SF, often with a military touch. ETA: since you said, “any media,” there’s the lovely old board wargame “Imperium,” from Game Designers’ Workshop, where a broad interstellar struggle is depicted. The game is an oldie, but a true peach. Very well balanced: you get a lot of “ebb and flow” of victory. I’ve played this one so much, the counters are getting worn out! ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/3 "2016-10-21T22:26:10Z")
**Ender’s Game** is a good example of warfare where the opponents are too mentally alien to each other to, you know, fight a right proper war. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/4 "2016-10-21T22:29:44Z")
[Blindsight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)) more or less qualifies. It’s amazingly bleak; the aliens are among the most alien I’ve ever encountered, and there’s no hope for humans. ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/5 "2016-10-21T23:13:03Z")
Footfall by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Not a movie or TV show, but an excellent book. It’s sort of an invasion story, but it definitely involves some real battles against aliens. They come here and ignore human’s attempt to be friendly, proceeding to target us with several rocks from orbit, including one fairly large one that gives the book its title. The humans find ways to fight back from our gravitational and technological disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/6 "2016-10-21T23:26:02Z")
The Kafer-Human war in the role-playing game 2300AD may be of interest. The Kafers are - as the name suggests - insectoids, and the rank and file have a peculiar type of intelligence, becoming intelligent only under duress (like combat). If you can wade through the porn, the Swarm Cycle shared universe on StoriesOnline (NSFW) has some solid military stories. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/7 "2016-10-21T23:30:25Z")
The Forever War. ---
**Author:** ![Push\_You\_Down](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/push_you_down/32/9095_2.png) [@Push\_You\_Down](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Push_You_Down)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/8 "2016-10-21T23:31:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Blindsight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)) more or less qualifies. It’s amazingly bleak; the aliens are among the most alien I’ve ever encountered, and there’s no hope for humans. I don’t want to be a judgey judge but I started reading that wikipedia page,which describes it as “hard sci-fi”…and then I got to this… a genetically-reincarnated vampire and said… Nope. I like the war in [Enemy Mine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enemy_Mine_(film)). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/9 "2016-10-21T23:46:22Z")
> [@Push\_You\_Down](#): > > I don’t want to be a judgey judge but I started reading that wikipedia page,which describes it as “hard sci-fi”…and then I got to this… a genetically-reincarnated vampire and said… Nope. It’s a more-or-less hard-science one, no supernatural elements to it at all, and the word “reincarnated” is not accurate, either. For me, I like the human-alien conflicts in David Brin’s \*Uplift Series \* ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/10 "2016-10-21T23:55:55Z")
> [@](#): > > For me, I like the human-alien conflicts in David Brin’s Uplift Series Those are fun, but implausible: There’s no way that that level of scientific superiority wouldn’t steamroll over the opposition. Given the societies depicted in the books, the wolfling clan should have been ruling the Galaxy by the time of the most recent stories. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/11 "2016-10-21T23:56:44Z")
I quite enjoyed [the _Starfire_ novels by David Weber and Steve White](http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/pe.cgi?3809), but I have not read any of the ones after _The Shiva Option_. There is a lot of time covered, like centuries. There is, of course, a lot of intense detail given for each battle depicted, but there is also quite a bit of political action which eventually involves other space-faring races. Central to the story is the complete inability to communicate at all with the enemy. Weber has been exploring a similar theme with his [_Safehold_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safehold) series, although the Human-Gbaba conflict is essentially on hold while the last remnants of humanity attempt to reform civilization all over again, with an eye towards being able to re-confront the Gbaba and (this time) defeat them. The novels are much more science-fiction-in-medieval-setting type stuff, again with much intense detail offered for the exorbitant land and sea battles that make up a hefty portion of each book. The central focus of the books is the conflict between the central, planetoid Church of God Awaiting and those people who want to break free of the shackles the church keeps on technology (and human curiosity and knowledge). This series is among the 5 best I have ever had the pleasure of reading, despite the incredibly annoying and inexplicable naming conventions Mr. Weber decided upon. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/12 "2016-10-22T00:58:35Z")
Tanya Huff’s Confederation of Valor series is fun. The Elder Races have long ago given up war and violence, but another interstellar polity appeared with violence in mind. So the Younger Races, including humanity, were recruited to do the fighting. The 5 books are about the events leading to the end of the war & the immediate aftermath. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/13 "2016-10-22T02:25:46Z")
Fry: Uh, just so we’ll know, who’s the enemy? Captain Zapp Brannigan: A valid question! We know nothing about them, their language, their history or what they look like. But we can assume this: they stand for everything we _don’t_ stand for. Also, they told me you guys look like dorks. Bender: _They_ look like dorks! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/14 "2016-10-22T02:52:40Z")
The Ori in Stargate SG-1 used extreme religious propaganda in addition to powerful weapons. I found that interesting. Ymmv ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/15 "2016-10-22T05:21:08Z")
I like John Scalzi’s “Old Man’s War” series. What I like about the series is that humans aren’t necessarily the good or the bad guys. Humans are newcomers to the galactic community and they start to expand rapidly. They say they’re doing this to catch up. The aliens claim they’re being too aggressive. Conflict ensues. My only complaint about the series is that although most of the time the writing it top-notch I feel like sometimes it becomes a little juvenile and lacks seriousness. But most of the time it is great. Space combat is described with punch. This isn’t a super-high tech universe (other than FTL drives) so offense is much stronger than defense. ---
**Author:** ![JustinC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justinc/32/8083_2.png) [@JustinC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustinC)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/16 "2016-10-22T05:40:50Z")
Maybe not interesting, but _The Last Starfighter_ was very enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![Atomic\_Alex](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atomic_alex/32/175_2.png) [@Atomic\_Alex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atomic_Alex)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 10:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/17 "2016-10-22T10:40:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Blindsight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blindsight_(Watts_novel)) more or less qualifies. It’s amazingly bleak; the aliens are among the most alien I’ve ever encountered, and there’s no hope for humans. I noticed that on Amazon but its still a little to expensive at the moment, and like Push You Down I’m put off by the whole ‘vampires’ subplot, thanks for the recommendation though! > [@Saltire](#): > > Footfall by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Not a movie or TV show, but an excellent book. It’s sort of an invasion story, but it definitely involves some real battles against aliens. > > They come here and ignore human’s attempt to be friendly, proceeding to target us with several rocks from orbit, including one fairly large one that gives the book its title. The humans find ways to fight back from our gravitational and technological disadvantage. I read that one some time ago, it was nice to see a story where humans aren’t totally outmatched. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > I like John Scalzi’s “Old Man’s War” series. What I like about the series is that humans aren’t necessarily the good or the bad guys. Humans are newcomers to the galactic community and they start to expand rapidly. They say they’re doing this to catch up. The aliens claim they’re being too aggressive. Conflict ensues. My only complaint about the series is that although most of the time the writing it top-notch I feel like sometimes it becomes a little juvenile and lacks seriousness. But most of the time it is great. Space combat is described with punch. This isn’t a super-high tech universe (other than FTL drives) so offense is much stronger than defense. I agree with all of that, but I tend to give the author a pass because his books are a lot of fun in a genre that seems to have been taken over by grimdark-seriousness and unlikable characterisation _(Alastair Reynolds I’m looking at you)_. There aren’t many science-fiction books that have made me genuinely laugh out loud but Scalzi has managed it. > [@Quartz](#): > > The Kafer-Human war in the role-playing game 2300AD may be of interest. The Kafers are - as the name suggests - insectoids, and the rank and file have a peculiar type of intelligence, becoming intelligent only under duress (like combat). Sorry, I’ve said the word ‘Kafer’ several times but I’m not getting whats insectoid about it? I’m fully prepared to slap my forehead at something completely obvious. Thanks for the answers everyone! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/18 "2016-10-22T19:17:16Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > I noticed that on Amazon but its still a little to expensive at the moment, and like Push You Down I’m put off by the whole ‘vampires’ subplot, thanks for the recommendation though! It’s not really much of a spoiler, but the vampires as said aren’t supernatural at all. By sci-fi standards they are pretty reasonable. Mild spoiler: They are an extinct hominid species that preyed on humans and are the origin of the vampire myth. They are also more intelligent in some ways than humans and not fully conscious. “Vampires” were resurrected via ancient DNA samples and grown in labs. > [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > I read that one some time ago, it was nice to see a story where humans aren’t totally outmatched. If you like that you might try Alan Dean Foster’s [Damned trilogy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Damned_Trilogy). ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/19 "2016-10-22T19:51:01Z")
> [@Atomic\_Alex](#): > > I noticed that on Amazon but its still a little to expensive at the moment, and like Push You Down I’m put off by the whole ‘vampires’ subplot, thanks for the recommendation though! > > I read that one some time ago, it was nice to see a story where humans aren’t totally outmatched. > > I agree with all of that, but I tend to give the author a pass because his books are a lot of fun in a genre that seems to have been taken over by grimdark-seriousness and unlikable characterisation _(Alastair Reynolds I’m looking at you)_. There aren’t many science-fiction books that have made me genuinely laugh out loud but Scalzi has managed it. > > Sorry, I’ve said the word ‘Kafer’ several times but I’m not getting whats insectoid about it? I’m fully prepared to slap my forehead at something completely obvious. > > Thanks for the answers everyone! 🙂 Käfer is German for beetle. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282/20 "2016-10-22T20:34:49Z")
So it’s “kaffer.” Or “calf-er.” Got it. 😉 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-interesting-depictions-of-a-human-vs-alien-interstellar-war/769282.md?page=2)