# Most Iraqis support attacking American troops **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 28, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506 "2008-02-28T14:43:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/1 "2008-02-28T14:43:45Z")
I didn’t know there was even still a debate going on about this - I thought five years of opinion polls had pretty much settled the issue. In [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=457718), **Der Trihs** with his usual aplomb, stated the following regarding Iraqi attitudes toward American troops: > [@](#): > > For that matter, most of them support killing foreign soldiers, reasonably enough. He was then called out by **xtisme** , **mswas** , and **FoieGrasIsEvil**. According to a poll by the BBC and ABC conducted in August 2007 and published the next month, 50% of Shia and 93% of Sunni, for a grand total of 57% of the respondents, stated that attacks on coalition forces are “Acceptable.” [PDF, p. 29](http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/resist/2007/09bbciraqipoll.pdf). The methodology is as the bottom of [this article](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983027.stm). Why is there even a debate about this any more? I suppose well find out how progress has been over the past six months when (if) they release another survey in March, but does anybody have any evidence that would indicate a change? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/2 "2008-02-28T15:08:10Z")
[QUOTE=black rabbit] Why is there even a debate about this any more? I suppose well find out how progress has been over the past six months when (if) they release another survey in March, but does anybody have any evidence that would indicate a change? [/QUOTE] I don’t find it at all surprising that foreigners, particularly Muslims, don’t like Infidel soldiers invading their country, smashing up the infrastructure, setting up prison camps in which dreadful things go on whilst continuing to kill civilians and smash cities like in Fallujah. It’s how we’d react. As poll after poll demonstrates this hostility I can only assume those who still argue the point are either too ignorant of the reality of the situation to actually take part in any debate or are cynical propagandists. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/3 "2008-02-28T15:20:09Z")
I thought pointing this out in Iraq threads became old hat at least two years ago. But it’s always good to keep up on top of things, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/4 "2008-02-28T15:27:13Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow] I thought pointing this out in Iraq threads became old hat at least two years ago. But it’s always good to keep up on top of things, I suppose. [/QUOTE] the only thing this makes me think of is that our dipshit president put those troops in harms way for no good reason. But thats another thread, I suppose. But now all i can think of is how our dipshit president will most likely _never suffer any consequences for this once he leaves office_ and I’m depressed. I’m going to the gym to hit some stuff now. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/5 "2008-02-28T15:41:23Z")
My only objection is blaming the president for all of it. The people of the United States wanted to kick some towel head ass, and the Congress of the United States was entirely invertebrate on the issue. We got ourselves a war that has no possible conditions that even political spin makers can define as a victory, or even not a despicable exercise in political cowardice. We got it because we, the people of the United States, and our steadfast Allies wanted it. Now we don’t like it. Eventually we will either leave, or be killed to the last man. Then the collaborators will be hunted down and murdered, because that’s what always happens to collaborators. And the people of the United States will find another country to serve as our “dangerous enemy” of the day. War is the business of America, and has been since the beginning of the last century, when the folks in government realized that the people don’t mind despotism during wartime. Tris ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/6 "2008-02-28T15:55:01Z")
As an American, speaking with _other_ Americans, soldiers all, about the way they were treated by civilian Iraqis that they came into contact with and their firsthand accounts don’t jibe with the poll, which I just read, thanks for the link. Their accounts were of a hospitable, if distrustful populace, in general, with exceptions. So, that leads me to believe that my perception is flawed because it’s from an American-centric POV, or that Iraqis act one way while they’re around armed American soldiers and say/act another when the soldiers aren’t around. Maybe both. Interestingly from that same poll is how the Iraqis questioned (2,000 plus from a variety of neighborhoods…is that an adequate sample size?), they largely condemn attacks on Iraqis and the Iraqi Army…the very Army the US is currently continuing to train and arm…and attacks on Iraqi civilians are quite prevalent, likely moreso than attacks on US troops. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/7 "2008-02-28T15:57:20Z")
Conditions in Iraq have improved considerably since last August, so I don’t think a poll from that timeframe necessarily reflects the sentiments today. It would be interesting to see some more recent data. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/8 "2008-02-28T16:03:25Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Conditions in Iraq have improved considerably since last August, so I don’t think a poll from that timeframe necessarily reflects the sentiments today. It would be interesting to see some more recent data. [/QUOTE] Yeah. Things there are in a state of flux from month to month, but appear appreciably better than last summer, when things were at an alltime low. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/9 "2008-02-28T16:10:35Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] The people of the United States wanted to kick some towel head ass, and the Congress of the United States was entirely invertebrate on the issue. Tris [/QUOTE] I demonstrated against it and when I got the chance voted against people who favored it. It’s the Americans who supported who are at fault. Not that it really matter at this point. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/10 "2008-02-28T16:15:39Z")
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil] As an American, speaking with _other_ Americans, soldiers all, about the way they were treated by civilian Iraqis that they came into contact with and their firsthand accounts don’t jibe with the poll, which I just read, thanks for the link. Their accounts were of a hospitable, if distrustful populace, in general, with exceptions. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m trusting polls rather than impressions gained from soldiers. Data not being the plural of anecdote and all that. Besides how do you think people are going to respond to armed infidels with a propensity to put their own safety above the lives of civilians? ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/11 "2008-02-28T16:15:57Z")
You don’t live there. My Iraqi neighbors are in contact with people living there and it is hell. We have build walls that separate sects. We have begun paying all sides to quit attacking. I heard someone on TV say, there were only 80 bombing yesterday. Thats an improvement? Before we went into Iraq there were zero. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/12 "2008-02-28T16:27:05Z")
Got two problems with interviewing soldiers about their interactions with the indigenous personnel. First, of course, is the natural tendency not to annoy, vex, or insult a heavily armed foreigner. Second would be the all-too-human need to see what one is doing as a positive boon, and to interpret responses in a light more positive than is justified. They are certainly not throwing bouqets of roses at our soldiers feet and offering their daughters. But the Miracle of the Surge has not fully blossomed. The next six months will be crucial. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/13 "2008-02-28T16:30:48Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] But the Miracle of the Surge has not fully blossomed. The next six months will be crucial. [/QUOTE] Yup. There’s a pony in there somewhere, if only we keep on digging. 😉 [Meanwhile, back in the real world](http://www.juancole.com/) > [@](#): > > Monday, February 25, 2008 > 60 Dead in Attack on Shiite Pilgrims; > Turkish invaders Kill 33 PKK Guerrillas; > 2 US Soldiers Killed; > Stewart Skewers McCain > > Between 40 and 60 Shiites were killed and 105 wounded on Sunday by a suicide bomber at Iskandariya in northern Babil province as they made their way south to the holy city of Karbala. Entire families were on the move together, so that the bombing killed or wounded many women and children. Many of the killed or wounded were struck by ball bearings from the makeshift bomb. > > Alexandra Zavis of the LAT Times reports that the Iskandariya bombing was preceded by clashes between Sunnis and Shiites in the southwestern Dora district of Baghdad. On Saturday, Shiite crowds had taunted the Sunnis left in Dora that the highway through the neighborhood now belonged to them. Since many Sunnis have been ethnically cleansed from that area during the past year, the taunts stung. > > Members of the Sunni Awakening Council (on the American payroll) went to the Iraqi army units in the neighborhood to complain about the Shiite pilgrims’ taunting, and the army–mostly Shiite–attacked the Sunnis! A Sunni charged that on Saturday, “Army forces started shooting randomly at locals.” > > So then on Sunday morning more Shiite pilgrims come through on their way to Karbala, with Mahdi Army militiamen escorting them. First, Sunni guerrillas set off a roadside bomb. Then others threw grenades from a bridge on the pilgrims below. About 3 pilgrims were killed, and 43 were injured. > > That is, the violence in Dora began as a conflict between the supposedly quiescent Mahdi Army and the US-backed Sunni Awakening Council! I suspect it is a microcosm of what will happen when the Sunnis come back to Baghdad from Damascus. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/14 "2008-02-28T16:43:39Z")
[QUOTE=Triskadecamus] the Congress of the United States was entirely invertebrate on the issue [/QUOTE] Heh. I thank you in advance for your generosity in allowing me to pilfer this for my political vocabulary. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/15 "2008-02-28T16:44:07Z")
Can’t believe this is still being “debated.” From the BBC’s last poll (2007): [Iraq poll March 2007: In graphics](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6451841.stm) > [@](#): > > \*\*The poll of 2,212 people from across Iraq suggests an increasing pessimism and feeling of insecurity since the overthrow of Saddam Hussein. > \*\* > \ > > Some Iraqis blame their politicians for the situation - 53% were dissatisfied with the way the Iraqi government was performing, compared with 33% in 2005. > > **Most think the US currently runs things in Iraq** while there most believe Syria and Iran are actively encouraging sectarian violence in the country. > > \ > > Since the end of the war in Iraq, thousands of civilians have died in violence on the streets. **Support for the coalition forces based in Iraq is low - with 82% expressing a lack of confidence in them and 69% thinking they had made the security situation worse.** – bolding mine. Lastly, scroll down to the bottom table to get a feel for what Iraqis think their life is like since the invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/16 "2008-02-28T16:46:44Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] the Miracle of the Surge has not fully blossomed. [/QUOTE] Look, a blossom! [Iraqi leaders reject key U.S. benchmark](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/iraq/2004247624_iraq28.html) > [@](#): > > Iraqi government leaders on Wednesday rejected a law that would have required nationwide elections by the fall, dealing a serious blow to a measure that the U.S. considers a key benchmark of political reconciliation in Iraq. > > Parliament passed the legislation two weeks ago. The veto by Iraq’s presidency council was an unexpected setback. Lawmakers will now have to reconsider the measure, which they only agreed to as part of a three-law package reached after weeks of political wrangling so divisive that some called for the dissolution of parliament. The two other laws — the 2008 budget and an amnesty that could apply to thousands of detainees in Iraqi prisons — were approved by the presidency council. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/17 "2008-02-28T16:56:12Z")
BTW, here’s an updated one from the same source, taken after “The Surge”: [Iraq poll September 2007: In graphics](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983027.stm) > [@](#): > > _“The United States has increased the number of its forces in Baghdad and surrounding provinces in the past six months. Please tell me if you think this increase of forces has made it better, worse, or had no effect?”_ > > **The results of the poll reflect a great degree of dissatisfaction with the US “surge”, with a vast majority of respondents considering the move to have made the situation in the country worse rather than better.** > > \ > > _“How long do you think US and other Coalition forces should remain in Iraq?”_ > **The autumn 2007 poll reflects growing disillusionment with the occupying forces’ presence in Iraq. There is a growing consensus among respondents that coalition troops should leave the country immediately.** > > Some 47% of respondents now back an immediate withdrawal, compared with 35% in February. > > **The poll also shows dwindling support for troops remaining in the country, even in support of the Iraqi government and security forces. Only 10% of those surveyed favour coalition forces remaining for that purpose.** > > \ > > _“Thinking about the political action of other people, do you find each of these items to be acceptable or not acceptable?”_ > > **One of starkest statistics from the poll is the overwhelming support for attacks on coalition forces among Iraq’s minority Sunni population; 93% of those surveyed said they considered it acceptable.** – my highlights Yeah, things are going swimmingly. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/18 "2008-02-28T17:00:43Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] BTW, here’s an updated one from the same source, taken after “The Surge”: [Iraq poll September 2007: In graphics](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6983027.stm) – my highlights Yeah, things are going swimmingly. [/QUOTE] That’s the exact same poll as the OP, not an updated one. Go to the second link in the OP-- the one that says “this article”. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/19 "2008-02-28T17:09:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] That’s the exact same poll as the OP, not an updated one. Go to the second link in the OP-- the one that says “this article”. [/QUOTE] Missed said link and feel duly chastised. :smack: Although I still like my formatting better. So there. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506/20 "2008-02-28T17:40:51Z")
Judging by how how Iraqis are murdering each other in droves wouldnt it be more pertinant to have a poll on whom they WOULDN’T consider it ok to kidnap,murder or torture? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-iraqis-support-attacking-american-troops/439506.md?page=2)