# Most Liberals are Hateful and Nasty Individuals **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635 "2013-05-29T16:41:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/141 "2013-05-30T20:52:13Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It goes deeper than just disagreeing on the solutions to our problems. Our mutual disgust stems from the fact that conservatives live in an alternate reality and we can’t agree on what the basic facts are. Bachmann represents government of the ignorant, by the ignorant, and for the ignorant. Vaccines cause retardation, creationism is as valid as evolution, global warming is a hoax, all we need to do is lower taxes to create jobs, Obamacare equals death panels and socialism, voter impersonation is a huge problem that must be addressed even if preventing ten fraudulent ballots prevents hundreds of thousands from voting, all Muslims are evil terrorists, there’s a war on Christmas, it goes on and on. Normally I don’t mind how stupid people are, but if your stupidity keeps the rest of us from moving forward, that’s a problem. I can’t say that Tea Partiers are all hateful people, but they tolerate if not embrace bigotry and they are profoundly ignorant. So yes, losing a prominent voice for ignorance and bigotry is good news for the nation and liberals are quite right to rejoice. Your side does it as well. You put up with left-wing wackos without rebuking them. Why? Because they deliver reliable votes on things you care about, but don’t have the numbers to do outrageous things. I don’t care if there are 35 Republicans in the House that will outlaw vaccines, or mandate the teaching of Creationism in school. Those things will never pass in a million years. Let them have their fun with those, while they vote with us on mainstream issues. We would rather have a Michelle Bachmann as a reliable vote instead of, say, an Arlen Specter. Who would you rather have? Ted Kennedy or Zell Miller? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/142 "2013-05-30T21:00:50Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > I don’t care if there are 35 Republicans in the House that will outlaw vaccines, or mandate the teaching of Creationism in school. See now, those of us in the reality-based community do tend to care about those sorts of positions, because they indicate that the elected officials who hold them are _BATSHIT CRAZY_. Name **one** “left-wing wacko” in Congress who is seriously advocating for a liberal cause that you consider equally reality-denying and pernicious as right-wing wacko beliefs such as “vaccines cause retardation, creationism is as valid as evolution, global warming is a hoax, all we need to do is lower taxes to create jobs, Obamacare equals death panels and socialism, voter impersonation is a huge problem that must be addressed even if preventing ten fraudulent ballots prevents hundreds of thousands from voting, all Muslims are evil terrorists, there’s a war on Christmas”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/143 "2013-05-30T21:01:17Z")
**jtgain** : What antifactual positions are you accusing the left wing of being “wacko” about? What is there that compares to the long (and by no means exhaustive) list of antifactual positions associated with the likes of _you_? If all you can do is what you’ve done, surrender the field of factuality and indulge in psychological projection, then you might want to remind yourself that you’re on a board whose goal is to fight ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/144 "2013-05-30T21:12:05Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > I’d like to think that somewhere out there is a rightie who was just as disgusted by the MOVE bombing as I, a leftie, was by Ruby Ridge and Waco. Of course there are. I had forgotten about that case (I don’t live in the region so it wasn’t big in my memory requiring me to look it up) and agree that the cops were **WAY** overboard. Bombing a row house because of a standoff? Talk about overkill. The problem, as I see it, is that the average person doesn’t get heard in the conservative movement. Limbaugh _et al_ put on the extreme callers that support their twisted mindset. Same thing happens on the Norman Goldman show or Stephanie Miller on progressive radio (yes, I will occasionally listen to WCPT to hear how the other side thinks). The more moderate and rational people aren’t heard from because it won’t be good ratings and won’t help boost the circle jerk of extremism. Same thing happens in many other groups. Do you hear a lot from the average black person who just wants a job and to be treated fairly? No, you get Jesse or Louis screaming and shouting. What about the regular Muslim who is proud to be American and condemns radical Islamic terrorism? Nope, we only see the extremists on the news (scare whitey and make more money for CNN). We see it in the abortion debate, immigration, gay rights, etc, etc, _ad nauseum_. I can’t afford to contribute to political parties and I’m too busy trying to keep a roof over my head and food in my family’s stomachs to volunteer my time for a candidate I believe in and respect. Instead the fat cats donate thousands and push an extremist agenda. As a fiscal and national security conservative I’m screwed because the only way I can show my displeasure with the policies I see coming from the left is to vote for someone too far to the right. I refuse to NOT vote, though. I have never been a quitter. To not vote because neither candidate completely matches my convictions is abhorrent to every instinct in my body (sorry, I channeled Nixon for a second). I am sometimes (too often) forced to vote not for a candidate but against the other candidate. As much as I didn’t like Papa Bush, I liked Slick Willy less. I thought W was a buffoon but Gore’s environmentalist views were too extreme for me. Palin was simply window dressing and the worst case of pandering to the women’s vote that I had ever seen but Obama’s policies were frightening. Our country thrives on conflict. It’s not enough to make a choice between A and B, we have to push it to be A and Z. If there is no conflict then the media creates one. Where the hell is the middle of the road candidate? Someone who is willing to negotiate and talk. Someone who says that the government will help people when they need it but not do everything for them. Someone who says our military must be strong but that we are not the world’s policeman. Someone who says protect the innocent, punish the wrongdoers and treat people fairly. Someone who says that the rich and powerful and corporations should be expected to pay appropriate taxes and not sneak through loopholes that the average schmuck can’t get. Someone who says that since Joe Blow can’t run his house in the red then neither can the government. Sorry about the rant. It just frustrates the living snot out of me that regular people can talk and debate and find a common ground but our elected officials (on both sides, folks) act like children. And for as stupid and babyish as they act, people keep re-electing them! Jesse Jr was under investigation for misuse of campaign funds and he still got re-elected. We truly get the government we deserve. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/145 "2013-05-30T21:24:12Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > See now, those of us in the reality-based community do tend to care about those sorts of positions, because they indicate that the elected officials who hold them are _BATSHIT CRAZY_. > > Name **one** “left-wing wacko” in Congress who is seriously advocating for a liberal cause that you consider equally reality-denying and pernicious as right-wing wacko beliefs such as “vaccines cause retardation, creationism is as valid as evolution, global warming is a hoax, all we need to do is lower taxes to create jobs, Obamacare equals death panels and socialism, voter impersonation is a huge problem that must be addressed even if preventing ten fraudulent ballots prevents hundreds of thousands from voting, all Muslims are evil terrorists, there’s a war on Christmas”. You guys have a self-admitted socialist in the U.S. Senate…Bernie Sanders. You get upset if people call Obama a socialist because it’s untrue, but don’t care when you have a real one. Maxine Waters, ex- Rep Cynthia McKinney and the like. Plus you have extreme positions. Over the counter Plan B to 15/13 year olds with no parental permission. Being against 24 hour waiting periods on abortion and advocating public funding for it. Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public. Thinking that having to get an absolutely free ID card in order to vote is “disenfranchisement.” Arguing that the 14th amendment, enacted in 1868, contemplated same sex marriage. I think that those positions are not supported by history or current rational facts. But, again, we disagree. Ain’t that the beauty of democracy? Can’t we do that without insults? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/146 "2013-05-30T21:36:17Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > You guys have a self-admitted socialist in the U.S. Senate…Bernie Sanders. Not a Democrat. Again, people should pay attention to this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/147 "2013-05-30T21:38:20Z")
When is the last time Sanders advocated something radical and extreme anyway? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/148 "2013-05-30T21:44:14Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Not a Democrat. Again, people should pay attention to this stuff. He caucuses with you. You don’t scorn him because he has an extreme ideology. > [@Acsenray](#): > > When is the last time Sanders advocated something radical and extreme anyway? Um, he’s a socialist! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/149 "2013-05-30T21:49:12Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Um, he’s a socialist! Um, you didn’t answer the question! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/150 "2013-05-30T21:50:26Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Um, he’s a socialist! That doesn’t answer the question. “Socialist” has no specific meaning. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/151 "2013-05-30T21:50:32Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Plus you have extreme positions. Over the counter Plan B to 15/13 year olds with no parental permission. Being against 24 hour waiting periods on abortion and advocating public funding for it. Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public. Thinking that having to get an absolutely free ID card in order to vote is “disenfranchisement.” Arguing that the 14th amendment, enacted in 1868, contemplated same sex marriage. We may have disagreement over these as policy options. (Ignoring the obvious disagreements we will have about your phrasing of them 🙂 ) But where is the bat shit comparable to teaching Creation Science as fact, or any of the rest of the reality denying nonsense \*\*Kimstu \*\*listed upthread? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/152 "2013-05-30T21:52:10Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Your side does it as well. You put up with left-wing wackos without rebuking them. Why? For one thing, because the sort of whackos one is likely to encounter at an OWS rally are generally far less objectionable, and probably far less dangerous, than the sort of whackos one is likely to encounter at a Tea Party rally. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/153 "2013-05-30T21:56:54Z")
> [@bup](#): > > We don’t have guns to work out our rage, so it just builds and builds. Why are guns a conservative thing? > [@gaffa](#): > > He’s average, which in the context of the really bright MSNBC hosts like Maddow and Hayes, makes him seem dim. But he has an old-school, two-fisted take on politics that is worth paying attention to occasionally. He and O’Donnell seem to have the best grasp on the mechanics of sausage making. > > I’d rank the MSNBC hosts I watch: > > 1: Maddow > 2: Hayes (close behind) > 3: O’Donnell > 4: Kornacki > 5: Matthews > 6: Harris-Perry I wish there was a “sportcenter” type meta-show that would give highlights of the other shows. I watch an hour of Maddow for about 20 minutes of really brilliant stuff. I’d like to watch the others (and I like it when they guest host TRMS) but I’ve got shit to do and their shows are like three hours long. So I generally just watch Stewart and Colbert and assume they cover the same talking points as MSNBC. > [@Chefguy](#): > > I would venture a guess that the OP has never watched Rachel Maddow. She’s certainly biased to the left, but is usually very even-handed in her commentary She used to be but she has become much more opinionated in the last year or so. Her coverage of guns was especially not even handed. > [@Shodan](#): > > Most of them aren’t, but the worst of them are as bad as the worst conservatives you can find. (And are in denial about it.) > > Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas. Liberals think conservatives are bad people. Their invective tends to reflect this. > > Regards, > Shodan > [@Lightnin](#): > > To counter that particular overused witticism, may I direct your attention to the OP? > [@gaffa](#): > > You’ve said this many times, and repetition does not make it true. I think I was stripped of my liberal credentials during the gun debate but I for one think that some conservatives are bad people. > [@](#): > > I do have good friends who are conservative, …He’s a very devout Catholic, and he starts from the basis that abortion is murder, therefore anyone that supports abortion is a supporter of murderers - and actual political discussion is impossible. “Murder” brooks no negotiation. I have several friends that fall into this category. They see liberals as baby killers and this bleeds into their view of everything else liberals support. Its just very hard to see good in people that you think are killing babies no matter how much they accuse you of hating women. > [@](#): > > Other good conservative friends are business owners who resent every penny they pay in taxes I have no tolerance for friends like this. They are either ignorant or unbelievably selfish. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/154 "2013-05-30T21:57:30Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Plus you have extreme positions. Over the counter Plan B to 15/13 year olds with no parental permission. Being against 24 hour waiting periods on abortion and advocating public funding for it. Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public. Thinking that having to get an absolutely free ID card in order to vote is “disenfranchisement.” Arguing that the 14th amendment, enacted in 1868, contemplated same sex marriage. Looking down that list, the points raised strike me as either: (a) not at all extreme for reasons I could easily expand upon, or (b) held by nobody, or at best straw somebodies. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/155 "2013-05-30T22:01:13Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > You guys have a self-admitted socialist in the U.S. Senate…Bernie Sanders. You get upset if people call Obama a socialist because it’s untrue, but don’t care when you have a real one. Maxine Waters, ex- Rep Cynthia McKinney and the like. Careful, there: Waters and McKinney are progressives, not socialists. (“Progressive” is well to the right of “socialist” and well to the left of “liberal”.) Sanders – WRT whom your “you guys” remark is inapposite, he’s no Democrat – caucuses with the Congressional Progressive Caucus because there is no Socialist Caucus. [Internal factions of the Democratic Party](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Democratic_party#Internal_factions): > [@](#): > > **Progressive Democrats** > European-styled social democrats. In the House they are organized in the Congressional Progressive Caucus (CPC), the largest in the House of Representatives. Some are descendants of the New Left: > \*Sherrod Brown > > - Howard Dean > - Keith Ellison > - Russ Feingold (the only Senator to vote against the original manifestation of the PATRIOT Act) > - Barney Frank > - Dennis Kucinich > - Barbara Lee > - Jim McDermott > - Cynthia McKinney > - Bernie Sanders (self-described socialist; not a Democrat, but caucuses with them) > - Pete Stark (the first openly atheist member of Congress[4]) > > **Traditional liberals** > Constitute half of the voter base, and take pain to avoid infighting between the separate Democratic coalitions. Centre-left, and don’t share many differences with the progressives anyway: > > - Joe Biden > - Barbara Boxer > - Kirsten Gillibrand > - The Kennedys > - John Kerry > - Nancy Pelosi > - Jay Rockefeller > - Elizabeth Warren > - Anthony Weiner > > **New Democrats** > The Third Way moderates. They’ve increased their clout since the Dems’ neoliberal exploits from the 90s and onward, and are represented by the New Democrat Coalition (an affiliate of the Democratic Leadership Council): > > - The Clintons > - John Edwards > - Dianne Feinstein > - Al Gore > - Joe Lieberman (independent since 2006) > - Some random black guy[5] > - Harry Reid > - Debbie Wasserman Schultz > > **Blue Dogs** > Here’s where the shit starts to break out. Those in the Blue Dog Coalition are often accused of being DINOs, siding with conservative thought whenever they wish, most commonly on social issues and deficit hawkery. Officially they are a coalition in the House but a few ideologically aligned Senators are listed as well. They’re typically elected in Jesusland, and are considered flaming lefties there: > > - Joe Donnelly > - Mary Landrieu > - Gabrielle Giffords > - Joe Manchin > - Ben Nelson > - Collin Peterson > - Heath Shuler > > **Dixiecrat leftovers and boll weevils** > To the right of the Blue Dogs. Not a significant feature in the party anymore, although occasionally one will turn up here and there as a failed Senate candidate, or a centrist Democrat will go haywire and swing far to the right.[6] > > - Virgil Goode (left the Democrats in 2000, was the Constitution Party presidential nominee in 2012) > - Zell Miller > > **Random populists** > These often vote with the progressive and traditional liberal wings of the party, but have their conservative quirky bits. Not easily categorized elsewhere: > > - Jon Tester > - Jim Webb > > **The libertarians** > Yes, they exist too, probably upset about Dubya’s stance on civil liberties and the Republicans’ constant juggling between pro-business interests and the Religious Right: > > - Mike Gravel > - There is also an erstwhile “Democratic Freedom Caucus” influenced by Georgism whose actual influence in the party is negligible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/156 "2013-05-30T22:04:02Z")
“Some random black guy”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/157 "2013-05-30T22:05:52Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > Plus you have extreme positions. Over the counter Plan B to 15/13 year olds with no parental permission. Being against 24 hour waiting periods on abortion and advocating public funding for it. Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public. Thinking that having to get an absolutely free ID card in order to vote is “disenfranchisement.” Arguing that the 14th amendment, enacted in 1868, contemplated same sex marriage. > > I think that those positions are not supported by history or current rational facts. Whether they are or not, those are not “extreme positions” in the sense that “End the Fed!” or “Drown it in a bathtub!” or “Teach the controversy!” are extreme positions. And some of those, e.g., “Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public,” are **not** liberals’/Dems’ positions anyway. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/158 "2013-05-30T22:08:15Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > “Some random black guy”? He has many names . . . ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/159 "2013-05-30T22:30:07Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > You guys have a self-admitted socialist in the U.S. Senate…Bernie Sanders. You get upset if people call Obama a socialist because it’s untrue, but don’t care when you have a real one. Maxine Waters, ex- Rep Cynthia McKinney and the like. Like I said: Name **one** “left-wing wacko” in Congress (and not an ex-Congresscritter, either) who is seriously advocating for a liberal cause that you consider equally reality-denying and pernicious as the above-mentioned right-wing wacko beliefs. Identify a specific individual and a specific endorsement of such a cause by that individual: just burbling “Socialist!!” doesn’t cut it. > [@jtgain](#): > > Plus you have extreme positions. Over the counter Plan B to 15/13 year olds with no parental permission. Being against 24 hour waiting periods on abortion and advocating public funding for it. How are these in any way comparable to claiming that, say, global warming is a hoax or that creationism should be taught as science? If this is what you consider left-wing “extremism”, you’re just reinforcing the fact that elected left-wingers these days are way more sane than their right-wing counterparts. > [@jtgain](#): > > Taking the 1st amendment establishment clause to mean absolutely no mention of religion anywhere and forever within earshot of the public. Whose position is that? I don’t think you even understand liberal views on First Amendment rights, if that’s how you characterize them. > [@jtgain](#): > > Thinking that having to get an absolutely free ID card in order to vote is “disenfranchisement.” And you apparently don’t understand what “disenfranchisement” means either. Again, as an example of radical extremism this is simply pathetic. > [@jtgain](#): > > Arguing that the 14th amendment, enacted in 1868, contemplated same sex marriage. Whose position is that? That’s the trouble with believing conservative talking points: they not only make shit up about science and reality in general, but they make shit up about their opponents’ views too. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635/160 "2013-05-30T22:36:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > That’s the trouble with believing conservative talking points: they not only make shit up about science and reality in general, but they make shit up about their opponents’ views too. Sounds hateful. Nasty, even. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-liberals-are-hateful-and-nasty-individuals/659635.md?page=9)