# Most loathsome city in the universe **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931 "2009-05-01T03:55:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/81 "2009-05-02T04:40:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m pretty surprised Detroit isn’t in the running. Eh, Detroit is clearly in bad shape, but I feel sorry for it. I never found a reason to truly loathe the place. Sure, there was lots of crime, high unemployment, decaying and abandoned buildings… but that really was just a problem for the people that couldn’t escape. Not to minimize their problems, of course. Once a great city, but mostly failed at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/82 "2009-05-02T04:42:01Z")
> [@Aquila\_Be](#): > > It’s interesting how many Americans think the universe consists solely of the USA.😕 Yeah, I can’t believe Americans have more experience with American shit holes. Boggles the mind, it does. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/83 "2009-05-02T14:08:17Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Eh, Detroit is clearly in bad shape, but I feel sorry for it. I never found a reason to truly loathe the place. Sure, there was lots of crime, high unemployment, decaying and abandoned buildings… but that really was just a problem for the people that couldn’t escape. Not to minimize their problems, of course. > > Once a great city, but mostly failed at this point. Sure the neighborhoods look like third-world countries, but there’s still good culture there: the DIA, Wayne State, Fox Theater, Red Wings and Tigers and Lio-- uh, just the Red Wings and Tigers, Motown Museum, African American Museum, Eastern Market… I still stand by Jeff City, MO. No culture, bleak, box store after box store, needlessly confusing road structure, no easy way to get there, etc, etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/84 "2009-05-02T14:15:29Z")
I’m going to throw in another vote for East St. Louis, having driven through there a couple of times. Also, Mansfield, Ohio. It might be a perfectly nice place to live, but I always think of it as the shitty town with one-way streets that don’t make any sense and make it impossible to find the interstate, and where this is a giant prison with razor wire fences and guard towers just outside the city limits. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/85 "2009-05-02T16:10:15Z")
> [@DaphneBlack](#): > > I’ll stick up for Newark Airport. It’s not a palace or anything, but I’ve been to plenty way shittier airports. It’s at least pretty clean. I can’t speak to the rest of the city, but I admit it don’t look good. And from what I hear about Camden and Trenton it seems like NJ could win a volume award at least. I agree. I’ve flown out of Newark a bunch of times. I didn’t think it was too bad, don’t get the animus in this thread. You can see the city skyline from there, but the airport is surrounded by turnpike clutter and industrial crap, with all the fabulous smells and dust that implies. The city itself is a bit of an improvement, really. It’s a city well-past its glory days, for sure, but you can see the shadow of it–some really great old architecture, that kind of thing. The Pru Center and the NJPAC is picking up the vibe downtown, but it’s still a scary place in many spots. Great Portuguese and Spanish food. And get a pastrami at Hobby’s if you’re there. Newark is not a thriving city–and if you’re really intent on getting mugged, they’ll be glad to help you out–but I don’t think it qualifies for most loathsome, not IMHO. And I’ve been in way worse airports. I like their little monorail system. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/86 "2009-05-02T16:16:26Z")
I suspect the animus for Newark has a lot to do with the airport. My father has a nightmarish story of a departure being repeatedly shifted from one end of the airport to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/87 "2009-05-02T16:24:27Z")
I must be lucky then, never had any problems. All my airport nightmares seem to be in Philly and KC. I’ve never even had a late flight out of O’Hare–must be some weird karma I’m operating with. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/88 "2009-05-02T16:35:08Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > I suspect the animus for Newark has a lot to do with the airport. My father has a nightmarish story of a departure being repeatedly shifted from one end of the airport to the other. It’s funny, because I’d much rather fly out of Newark than JFK. Getting to JFK is a freakin’ nightmare. Newark is very accessible from the turnpike. Now, the bus station… that’s a different story. Yeah, Newark is kind of a hole, but it’s no worse than the bad parts of Philly or LA in my opinion. You can’t tell me it’s worse than the bad parts of Port au Prince, or some of the slums of Africa (I’ve heard Abidjan, Algiers, and Lagos are all no treat, and Cairo has already been mentioned). No doubt Calcutta has a lot to recommend it, but its slums are worse than Newark’s, I’m sure. I’ve heard scary things about Dhaka, and China and Russia probably have plenty to offer in the way of filthy cesspools. Is it arrogant of me to say that America probably does not house one of the Top Five Worst Cities in the World? Maybe. I think I’m being realistic though. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/89 "2009-05-02T16:54:45Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > I must be lucky then, never had any problems. All my airport nightmares seem to be in Philly and KC. I’ve never even had a late flight out of O’Hare–must be some weird karma I’m operating with. KC is my favorite airport of all time! Simple to navigate, no lines for security, free wi-fi! ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/90 "2009-05-02T17:00:39Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > Is it arrogant of me to say that America probably does not house one of the Top Five Worst Cities in the World? Maybe. I think I’m being realistic though. I totally agree, but I don’t want to just speculate about cities outside the US that I have heard are bad. All the non-US cities I’ve visited have been quite nice. Also, all the non-US cities you named, except some in Russia, have better weather than Duluth 🙂 Duluth also has the charming feature of being built on a huge hill with a body of water at the bottom. This is charming in San Francisco, not quite as charming in a place that ices over for months. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/91 "2009-05-02T17:03:32Z")
> [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](#): > > I totally agree, but I don’t want to just speculate about cities outside the US that I have heard are bad. All the non-US cities I’ve visited have been quite nice. Also, all the non-US cities you named, except some in Russia, have better weather than Duluth 🙂 You are correct that I’m speculating. I’ve never been to a non-US city that I thought was vile, but really, Duluth? May not be your cup of tea, but worst city in the world? Newark, for all its lack of charm? Nah. That’s also just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/92 "2009-05-02T17:04:53Z")
> [@Aquila\_Be](#): > > It’s interesting how many Americans think the universe consists solely of the USA.😕 I’m not an American. I have walked through the Dharavi slum in Bombay and Alexandra township in Johannesburg and a dozen other places where a life is worth less than a pack of cigarettes… and I’d still rather not be in Newark. ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/93 "2009-05-02T17:52:20Z")
Richmond, CA is a pit. Just north of Oakland, CA. Another pit. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/94 "2009-05-02T18:01:57Z")
Another vote for Camden, NJ. Even the best roads going through it look like they’ve been bombed. The only ‘decent’ area is the waterfront and that is guarded like a security zone to keep the original locals out. The area around Rutgers isn’t too bad looking but don’t walk off their area by a block. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/95 "2009-05-02T18:14:52Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > It’s funny, because I’d much rather fly out of Newark than JFK. Getting to JFK is a freakin’ nightmare. Newark is very accessible from the turnpike. Now, the bus station… that’s a different story. Yeah, JFK is hell to get to, that’s for sure. It’s also stupidly organised and unnecessarily huge. I’ve never had any problems with flights at Newark. I have a pretty high tolerance for flights being slightly delayed (I very rarely have connections to make) but every flight I’ve taken from Newark has been on time or nearly. I did have a scary landing there but I don’t think you can blame Newark for the wind. In my view an airport can’t really be loathsome unless there are few/no amenities, it’s dirty or seems unsafe, or the airport itself makes it more likely that people will miss their flights (hello LAX). Newark does not qualify! ---
**Author:** ![ems](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@ems](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ems)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/96 "2009-05-02T18:17:35Z")
Port Harcourt, Nigeria gets my vote ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/97 "2009-05-02T18:21:03Z")
There’s a problem of definition here. To me, if a city can offer _some_ degree of culture, intellect, arts, _something_ in some neighborhood, then it’s not completely loathsome, regardless of what else might be going on. That means that Baltimore, Calcutta, Karachi, and Baghdad can’t be on the list, because there is culture in all those places. So what is left? Where are the cities without any sign of the higher aspirations of the human mind? ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/98 "2009-05-02T18:27:23Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > So what is left? Where are the cities without any sign of the higher aspirations of the human mind? Are there any? I’m sure every city has something redeemable in it. So what is the criteria? How high is the overall human misery in a city? Do you think the quantity of human misery in Calcutta, despite its cultural high points, outweighs the misery in Newark? I’m sure it does. The highs are higher but the lows are much lower. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/99 "2009-05-02T18:46:49Z")
So what? That doesn’t make Calcutta “loathsome.” There’s too much of the higher kind of human life being lived there. Simple poverty cannot make a place loathsome, in my view Take Dhaka, even. Every time I hear about a study on happiness, Bangladesh comes out at the top. Poverty doesn’t make life loathsome. Poverty is not equal to misery. In my mind, it’s not poverty, but an absence of intellectual or cultural aspiration that can qualify a place for loathsomeness. I don’t know enough about Newark to draw any conclusions, but if Newark is a place that suffers from an abundance of cultural and intellectual mediocrity, then maybe that does qualify. Some affluent suburbs, where people have plenty of money, but have no taste, no curiosity about the world, no culture, perhaps those are better qualifications for loathsome. Perhaps places where people aren’t devastatingly poor but are dominated by reactionary religious authorities or autocracies, like Peshawar or Riyadh. Come to think of it, a place like Cincinnati or Knoxville might be better qualified as loathsome, for the prevailing absence of intellectual life. Okay, even I know that Cincinnati isn’t _completely_ devoid of culture. I’ve seen some of it first hand, but there’s far less there than there is in the brutal slums of Bombay or the dangerous militancies of Karachi. I have heard of places in West Africa in which there is absolutely no social order as soon as the sun goes down – even the wealthy are not safe in the streets. Maybe those come close. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931/100 "2009-05-02T19:04:23Z")
I’ve never been to Jakarta, but from what I’ve heard, it’s probably the most loathsome city on the planet. 8.5 million people, and most of them without running water… It’s hard to top that. If we restrict it to the US, though, or to places I’ve actually been, then I’m going to throw in my vote for Butte, MT. The city’s primary tourist attraction is a Superfund site, and there is no culture to be found beyond getting drunk (the highlight of the calendar is St. Patrick’s Day, which is just like any other day except they get even more drunk and dye the beer green). Nothing in the place looks clean, and nobody in the place seems happy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-loathsome-city-in-the-universe/494931.md?page=6)