# Most obscure American city for its size **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203 "2012-12-16T18:22:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/21 "2012-12-17T03:55:33Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I was kind of shocked when I saw El Paso at #19 in that list. I just assumed it was some small cow town out in West Texas. Yeah, the Marty Robbins song doesn’t make it sound that big. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/22 "2012-12-17T04:29:19Z")
Living just 100 miles away, I barely know anything about San Jose, I’ve never been to San Jose and I wager my friends also barely know anything about San Jose. Despite being larger than San Francisco, it’s been thoroughly overshadowed by it’s smaller cousin. To add insult to injury, I’m much more familiar with the smaller towns in between: Palo Alto, Mountain View, Sunnyvale, Cupertino and Santa Clara, those being the headquarters of Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Apple & Intel respectively. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/23 "2012-12-17T04:35:19Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I was surprised on a recent talk show when they mentioned **San Antonio, Texas** is the seventh largest US city. > > I was actually there once for two nights - didn’t see much as I was on business - but what little I saw made me think this was some kind of mid-size, hick Texas town. I never hear much about San Antonio - but then again, I really don’t pay much attention to anything much that comes out of Texas. (Sorry if I offended any Texans…feel free to ignore Nevada.) Not at all. Don’t know where you stayed, but SA is a surprisingly cosmopolitan town for a city of its size, not surprising situated as it is between the capital of Texas and Mexico. A number of countries have consulates downtown, and you had better enjoy Hispanic culture as there is little Anglo power structure here, especially of the political kind: Despite being in Texas, Obama won Bexar County handily this past year, 53-46%, a 7-point lead, and the Democratic party is dominant. The economy has been, and is, good here, with many people ranking SA-Austin as two up-and-coming cities of the future. It is a wonderful city to raise children as there are a kajillion things for them to do - again, the influence of Hispanic, family-oriented culture. It’s also one of the most Catholic cities in the country, as one can imagine, so Protestant fundamentalism is muted in San Antonio the way it isn’t in, say, Waco or Midland (or Atlanta, GA and Knoxville, TN, 2 cities I’ve lived in.) It’s almost non-existent. To be honest, I’d rather people not hear about San Antonio. That’s what killed Atlanta for me - it got _too_ big. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/24 "2012-12-17T04:50:03Z")
I have to get down to #23 before I get to a MSA that I have not been before: Portland, OR. So that gets my vote. “Riverside-San Bernadino” is a collection of about **30** cities, not just one or two. It encompasses 27,000 square miles, 3 times the size of Dallas-FW MSA (9k) and over 4 times the size of NYC MSA (6.5k sm). ---
**Author:** ![lavenderviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/cdc98d/32.png) [@lavenderviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lavenderviolet)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/25 "2012-12-17T05:03:27Z")
I’ve heard of Wichita Falls primarily for having had a particularly terrible tornado back in 1979. ’ > **[1979 Red River Valley tornado outbreak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Valley_Tornado_Outbreak)** > > A destructive and deadly tornado outbreak impacted the Red River Valley on April 10, 1979. Several strong to violent tornadoes touched down throughout the region that day. One F4 tornado impacted Vernon, Texas. The most notable tornado was another F4 tornado that destroyed most of the southern part of Wichita Falls, Texas, and is commonly referred to as "Terrible Tuesday" by many meteorologists. Additional tornadoes were reported across the Southern Plains as well as in the Mississippi River Vall... Couldn’t tell you anything else about the place though. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/26 "2012-12-17T05:12:04Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wichita Falls is a pretty modestly sized city. > > Digging up a list of the biggest metro areas in the USA, the first one I find surprising is Virginia Beach/Norfolk. I was aware of the existence of that place, but really had no idea it was a large city. There’s a million and a half people there. Wow. Yes, Virginia Beach is the largest city in the state, and has been for a while now. But I’ll bet hardly anyone knows that. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/27 "2012-12-17T05:33:18Z")
I’m not sure I agree Riverside counts as its own city. Yeah, it’s a separate municipality, but it’s really part of the Los Angeles metroplex. If you can count Riverside, I think this might be a competition Canada wins, though; hardly anyone gives a second thought to the city of Mississauga, Ontario. The name even sounds obscure. But Mississauga has well over 700,000 people. In terms of just within the city limits it is the sixth largest city in Canada, and would be in the top 20 in the USA; it has more people than Boston, Seattle, Las Vegas, or Portland. What’s fascinating about it is that it is almost deliberately obscure, despite its huge size. Mississauga has no daily newspaper. It has no commercial radio station I am aware of. I believe it is the largest city in North America about which those things can be said. It has no landmarks of note, unless you count the huge mall it has, which is pretty much representative of the city itself; it’s the biggest shopping mall in eastern Canada and it’s this huge frankenmall that goes on and on, added onto a dozen times, with no real rhyme or reason to its design. Like the mall, the city has no clearly definable center mass, no one downtown area. It has no mass transit system of is own of any significance, it’s just… it’s there. It can’t support sports teams because nobody thinks of it as a community. It’s a giant growth on Toronto’s west side. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/28 "2012-12-17T05:49:24Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > But I don’t know that Columbus has an identity. Cleveland does, Cincinnati does. They both have sports teams and stuff. I’ve been to Columbus many times and know lots of people who live there but I could never say “Oh, that’s so Columbus.” People from Cincy and Cleveland even have accents. I wouldn’t say that people from Columbus do. > > Then again all of the people I know who live in Columbus are from Cleveland, so I don’t really know any native Columbus-ers. > > Columbus is just sort of big, there, and meh. I live near Columbus and I agree with all of this. We don’t even have a local word for the grass between the sidewalk and the street. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/29 "2012-12-17T05:53:06Z")
> [@lavenderviolet](#): > > I’ve heard of Wichita Falls primarily for having had a particularly terrible tornado back in 1979. ’ > [1979 Red River Valley tornado outbreak - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_River_Valley_Tornado_Outbreak) > > Couldn’t tell you anything else about the place though. I remember that tornado. Some friends were living there and tended bar in a place called Chapter 11. Not sure what happened to it the first time, but the tornado destroyed the building, and when it was rebuilt, it was called Chapter 11, the Third Edition. I spent some time there visiting those friends. It was an okay place. Certainly more exciting than where I was from in West Texas, more stuff to do and it was a lot closer to Dallas-Fort Worth. But … it was still Texas. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/30 "2012-12-17T15:26:08Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > If you can count Riverside, I think this might be a competition Canada wins, though; hardly anyone gives a second thought to the city of Mississauga, Ontario. For Canadian cities, I’d say that at least among Americans, it’s the smaller second-tier cities in Quebec that are largely forgotten, Sherbrooke, Gatineau, Trois-Rivieres, Drummondville and Saguenay. More Americans probably know about places like Saskatoon, Barrie, Sudbury, and Lethbridge, than the equivalents in Quebec. Even the mega-burbs of Toronto like Mississauga, Oakville, and Markham probably have more buzz in the States than Laval, Brossard, and Longueuil. ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/31 "2012-12-17T15:27:50Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I live near Columbus and I agree with all of this. We don’t even have a local word for the grass between the sidewalk and the street. Satanic Oasis? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/32 "2012-12-17T15:57:51Z")
Charlotte is such a nothing that even this thread forgot about it! Or Jacksonville. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/33 "2012-12-17T16:16:47Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > I was kind of shocked when I saw El Paso at #19 in that list. I just assumed it was some small cow town out in West Texas. I had no idea it was bigger than Memphis, Boston, Seattle, Denver, or Baltimore (the next five in the list). Texas cities like to have their city limits way far out. When passing through Texas I remember seeing city limit signs. I would look around and see nothing but cows. ---
**Author:** ![Dorjan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dorjan/32/12440_2.png) [@Dorjan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorjan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/34 "2012-12-17T16:29:27Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > I live near Columbus and I agree with all of this. We don’t even have a local word for the grass between the sidewalk and the street. Wait, you mean tree lawn isn’t the official, common term all over? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/35 "2012-12-17T17:01:21Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > Often confused with Des Moines IA for some reason. “Often?” By whom? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/36 "2012-12-17T17:22:03Z")
> [@Beware\_of\_Doug](#): > > Try being Yonkers, which actually _borders_ NYC. Despite being the 4th largest municipality in the state with nearly 200,000 people, it’s in an absolute dead zone, in part because it’s New Yorkers’ most convenient example of Nowheresville. But that’s still only half the population of Staten Island, NYC’s smallest borough. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/37 "2012-12-17T17:33:19Z")
Until a couple of years ago, if you had asked me what the second largest city in New England was, I would have guessed Providence or Hartford. [Worcester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester,_Massachusetts) would never have occurred to me. (Also, Hartford isn’t even the largest city in Connecticut, nor is it the second largest.) ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/38 "2012-12-17T17:45:45Z")
> [@fachverwirrt](#): > > [Worcester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester,_Massachusetts) would never have occurred to me. What’s the second largest municipality in New York State? You’re wrong. [Hempstead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hempstead,_New_York) ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/39 "2012-12-17T17:49:07Z")
Omaha is often overlooked. It’s a big city - over 400,000 in the city proper and almost 900,000 in the metropolitan area. Home to 5 Fortune 500 companies and Warren Buffett, uber rich guy. It has a world class zoo with one of the best big cat breeding programs in the world and some great museums. People out here on the left coast think it is a dusty little cow-town. They are always surprised when I say it’s about the size of Portland. I lived there from 1997-2001. It is definitely fly-over country in terms of music, though. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203/40 "2012-12-17T17:58:14Z")
> [@chiroptera](#): > > Tulsa Oklahoma? > Oklahoma generally seems to ping weakly below the radar. Any city that features in the title of a famous hit song can hardly be called obscure, even if (like me) most people couldn’t tell you anything about it or even what state it’s in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-american-city-for-its-size/644203.md?page=3)