# Most obscure U.S. President **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 19, 2000, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122 "2000-07-19T17:54:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/21 "2000-07-19T22:10:53Z")
**MaxTorque** said: > [@](#): > > Martin Van Buren - Possibly. Anyone have a good reason to remember him? Well, there was that episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was cornered by the Van Buren Boys, and escapes by accidentally making an eight with his fingers (Van Buren being the eighth president). Does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Dumbguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dumbguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dumbguy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/22 "2000-07-19T22:33:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Danielinthewolvesden \* > \*\*David Roberts. See, you’ve never heard of him either. In fact, he is so obscure, I have never heard of him. \*\* I think you mean Robert David. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/23 "2000-07-19T22:52:29Z")
Just want to chime in that Polk is disqualified based on the They Might Be Giants song. I can’t hear that name without the song running through my head. “Mr. James K. Polk, our eleventh preeeeesident…” ---
**Author:** ![Grendel69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7bcc69/32.png) [@Grendel69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grendel69)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/24 "2000-07-19T22:56:39Z")
You headed me off at the pass. For more info on the David Rice Atchison story go to [http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/atchison/atchison.html](http://home.nycap.rr.com/useless/atchison/atchison.html) I suspect it is also probably on the SD somehwere. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/25 "2000-07-19T23:31:09Z")
Since I’ve had to cite that column before, I knew right where to go. Here it is: [What if prez and VP die before being sworn in?](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_133.html) > [@](#): > > Some may think improvisations of this sort are a pretty casual way to run a country, but equally strange things have happened before. History buffs will undoubtedly recall the case of David Rice Atchison, who may or may not have been the 12th president of the United States for a total of one day. At midnight on Saturday, March 3, 1849, outgoing president James Polk’s term expired, but incoming president Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on the Sabbath and put the ceremony off until Monday, March 5–which meant nobody was president on Sunday, at least officially. > > Atchison was president pro tempore of the Senate then, and under the law in force at the time the succession would have devolved upon him, but he wasn’t sworn in, he didn’t do anything presidential (I believe he took a nap), and nobody to this day is really sure if he was president or not. It is this kind of thing that makes you wonder how the country has gotten this far without somebody conspiring to sell it to the gypsies. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2000, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/26 "2000-07-19T23:49:50Z")
A quick phrase search for “the most obscure president” turns up sites about Hayes, Filmore, Polk, and Pierce, but I think that’s only because Arthur is too obscure to have a website about him. (Just kidding). By a wide margin, Arthur was the very last president I heard of. I vividly remember saying to my mother, “Some guy named Chester Arthur was president?! How come I never heard of him?” ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/27 "2000-07-20T01:57:16Z")
Obscure is all relative. Chester Arthur was an alumni of my alma mater, used to attend church where I mail my letters (it’s now a post office), and is buried about five miles from where I work. He actually was a fairly good president overall. I’d say Franklin Pierce deserves the honor. Not only is he part of the sad group of pre-Civil-War one-term presidents, but he also did practically nothing during his term, since he was plunged into a deep depression over the death of his son. ---
**Author:** ![bwv881](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bwv881](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bwv881)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/28 "2000-07-20T03:38:11Z")
Chester Arthur by far. I believe he was the last foreign born president (Canada). ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/29 "2000-07-20T04:31:45Z")
bwv: I don’t think so. CAA was born in Vermont. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/30 "2000-07-20T13:06:58Z")
There was rumor that Arthur had been born in Canada, but I think its pretty well settled that his father (a Baptist minister)had a congregation across the border, but lived in VT. The last president not to be born a US citizen was Andrew Jackson (born before US Independence from Britain). So, that would make Martin Van Buren the first presdient born on US soil. A pretty good “first.” One terrific story about Arthur, and something that Clinton should have remembered: Arthur was something of a dandy, spending lots of money on clothes, find food, drink, and decorating the White House. He was particularly fond of good wines. A visitor to the White House complained about his drinking and eating on such a lavish scale. His reply - “Madame, I may be President, but my private life is no one elses’s damn business.” Way to go Chet! He also married a woman who was born and raised near where I grew up, so I guess I’m a little partial to the guy. ---
**Author:** ![psycat90](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@psycat90](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psycat90)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/31 "2000-07-20T21:56:47Z")
Well I’ll just agree with stuyguy and say that Polk was in fact a great president, and offer education on that fact ala Smeghead and a TMBG song.In 1844, the Democrats were split The three nominees for the presidential candidate Were Martin Van Buren, a former president and an abolitionist James Buchanan, a moderate Louis Cass, a general and expansionist From Nashville came a dark horse riding up He was James K. Polk, Napoleon of the Stump Austere, severe, he held few people dear His oratory filled his foes with fear The factions soon agreed He’s just the man we need To bring about victory Fulfill our manifest destiny And annex the land the Mexicans command And when the votes were cast the winner was Mister James K. Polk, Napoleon of the Stump In four short years he met his every goal He seized the whole southwest from Mexico Made sure the tarriffs fell And made the English sell the Oregon territory He built an independent treasury Having done all this he sought no second term But precious few have mourned the passing of Mister James K. Polk, our eleventh president Young Hickory, Napoleon of the Stump For more: [http://www.tmbg.org/learning/jameskpolk/](http://www.tmbg.org/learning/jameskpolk/) ---
**Author:** ![Edwardina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Edwardina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edwardina)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2000, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/32 "2000-07-20T22:11:47Z")
I was just going to write: “Most obscure President? Whatsisname, definitely Whatsisname.” But seeing all these erudite answers, well, I just can’t bring myself to do it . . . I would have to go with Chester A. Arthur. All the others, if you said their names, would ring a Presidential bell in my mind, but with him, it’s like “Whose that? Oh, yeah, some President guy. I think.” And then I have to look it up to be sure. ---
**Author:** ![bwv881](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bwv881](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bwv881)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/33 "2000-07-21T00:10:19Z")
I stand corrected: three sources I checked all indeed indicate Arthur was born in Vermont although his father was from Northern Ireland and taught in Canada. I was sure I read in my local paper once that he was from Canada but I must have confused the story. Thanks for the corrections. From the Groliers on-line encyclopaedia: "Chester Alan Arthur was born in North Fairfield, Vt., on Oct. 5, 1829. His father, William Arthur, emigrated from Ireland and, after teaching in Vermont and Canada, became a Baptist minister. His mother, Malvina Stone, was a descendant of English settlers in New Hampshire. ``` Arthur entered Union College in Schenectady, N.Y., at the age of 15. After his graduation in 1848 he studied law at home and earned his living as a teacher at North Pownal, Vt., and as principal of the academy at Cohoes, N.Y. He received his final training in New York City at the law office of Culver and Parker. Admitted to the bar in 1854, he formed his own law firm in 1856." ``` ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/34 "2000-07-21T02:00:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Montfort \* > \*\*. . . and Clinton (especially if he gets that Nobel Peace Prize he’s trying so hard to win this week). \*\* I’m not so sure that a Nobel Prize would help so much. How many people could tell you what other president won one? Admittedly, Teddy is known for other reasons, but how many people remember the Nobel. Hell, how many people even remember that there was a Sino-Russian war. I’d like to chime in with others in naming Polk and the most **undeservedly** obscure president. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/35 "2000-07-21T02:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \***Originally posted by obfusciatrist \* > Hell, how many people even remember that there was a Sino-Russian war.** Probably not very many, but this isn’t a “false memories” thread. But a few people, I suspect, do remember the Russo-Japanese War. Since we are momentarily sidetracked, I’d like to list a couple of examples, given by a Londan _Times_ correspondant, as to why the Russians lost this war (which Russia start) so badly. 1) In the first encounter, the Russians fought the Japanese to a standstill during a daylong battle. Then night fell, and the Russian troops relaxed, because _the Japanese would never launch a night attack_. 2) In the second encounter, the Russian troops held a ridge, and didn’t bother to conceal their positions, because the ground the Japanese troops were on _was much too rough for them to ever be able to bring in heavy artillary_. Getting back to most obscure U.S. president, after reviewing the various posts, I’ll vote for Pierce. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/36 "2000-07-21T02:57:28Z")
Just a quick Teddy/medals hijack: I heard on the news TR will likely get that Medal of Honor he lobbied for all his life: "The Army has recommended that Theodore Roosevelt receive the nation’s highest military honor more than 100 years after he led the Rough Riders in the Spanish-American War. A recommendation to honor the former president with the Medal of Honor is awaiting President Clinton’s signature, Army spokeswoman Karin Martinez said in Thursday’s Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. If awarded, it would be the most belated Medal of Honor in history, the newspaper said. Two years ago, Congress approved legislation asking that Roosevelt be awarded the medal, but Clinton said he wanted a review by Army scholars." – Associated Press ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/37 "2000-07-21T03:04:35Z")
Yeah, put me down for Pierce, too. I’ve always had a soft spot for Chester A. Arthur…he had the damnedest whiskers of any American President. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/38 "2000-07-21T11:23:24Z")
A couple of addenda to Max’s excellent list: Ford will elude obscurity due to his pardon of Nixon. And Ike did manage to organize the Allied win in WWII - no small potatoes. Now, to my vote: IMO, the nominees are Martin Van Buren, John Tyler, James Polk, Zachary Taylor, Millard Fillmore, Franklin Pierce, James Buchanan, Rutherford Hayes, James Garfield, Chester Arthur, and Warren Harding. Harding, Garfield, and Zachary Taylor drop out due to death in office. It may not be much, but it’s the sort of trivia they always feed you in lieu of real history when you’re a kid. So you know who they were, sort of. Hayes is known for winning a rather disputed election; kick him out of there. Buchanan was prez as we stumbled toward the Civil War; that kicks him off the short list. That leaves Van Buren, Tyler, Polk, Fillmore, Pierce, and Arthur. I’m gonna kick Tyler off as the first veep to ascend to the presidency due to the death of a president. Fillmore, Polk, and Pierce, by becoming virtual synonyms for obscure presidents, lose out in a perverse sort of way. That leaves Martin Van Buren and Chester A. Arthur. I’m gonna go with Van Buren, but it’s a tough call. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/39 "2000-07-21T12:45:22Z")
I’m sure that Ronald Reagen would answer the question “Ronald who?” ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2000, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122/40 "2000-07-21T14:00:58Z")
Max, I was so swept up in the excellence of your list earlier that I forgot to mention one item which I found somewhat absurd. And thanks, RT, for reminding me. You said that Eisenhower is likely our most forgettable 20th C prez. No way, Max! Three things prevent this: 1. As RT points out, his WWII record gives him a huge boost; to my dad’s generation the man was Godlike, 2. Historians are reevaluating him, as they did Truman, and concluding that much of the “coasting” you refer to was a mask for some pretty shrewd politicing, and 3. On roadsides coast-to-coast there are thousands of those rectangular blue signs with the circle of white stars reminding us of the guy. No, Ike is here to stay. As for most forgettable in 20th C, I’d say Taft, Harding, maybe Bush in time. Frankly, I hope it will be Kennedy – who I suspect will be the Garfield of the 20th C. Fifty years from now kids will go Kenne-who? as their grandparents’ jaws drop in disbelief. Funny thing is, the kids will be right. Anyway Max, it’s still a boffo list, despite my disagreement regarding Ike. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-obscure-u-s-president/26122.md?page=3)