Absolutely not. There is a huge piece of history left out of almost every single U.S. history book when Rutherford Birchall Hayes is mentioned, and it’s not that his wife was a teetotaler.
In 1877, there was the closest thing this country’s ever seen to a general strike. It started on the railroads and spread pretty quickly to cities up and down the East Coast and the Midwest. Guess who called in the Army and the National Guard to break it? Guess who started the program of building armories in every city and town, not to defend against a foreign enemy but a pissed-off working class?
That’s him, all right. He’s only obscure 'cos nobody wants to talk about the Great Strike of 1877. Not good for the history class, doncha know.
There’s a book by Jeremy Brecher called Strike! that’s got a very good history of this event, and it gets a few pages in Zinn’s People’s History of the United States.
So frankly, I’d put Hayes up there with Polk as one of the undeservedly obscure Presidents. Pierce, on the other hand… well, there are some very good reasons why he’s the only President from New Hampshire. We’re too afraid of a repeat to nominate anyone else.
I just don’t see Kennedy being sent to the obscure list. You may question his integrity, morals, accomplishments, etc., but the man is something of an icon for a whole generation of people. I don’t believe that Garfield ever achieved elevation into the pantheon. Additionally, Kennedy comes from a family that is the closest thing this country has ever had to royalty (for good or ill). I doubt that many people knew the names of Wm. Henry Harrison’s siblings, Lincoln’s brothers and sisters, Garfield’s siblings, or McKinley’s relatives, but we all know about Robert Kennedy, Ted Kennedy, Jackie O., The Great John Kennedy (my name for young John, ala’ The Great Waldo Pepper), etc.
As an aside, I do believe we have enough interest here to start a Arthur/Van Buren Appreciation Society. Let’s give these forgotten Americans their due! Besides, a party in their honor is a great excuse to drink some cold beer. “Hey, what are celebrating again? We’re celebrating Arthur/Van Buren Day. Oh, yeah. Anybody seen the bottle opener?”
Great list, but I disagree with you on Adams, John Q. The man’s only claim to fame is his name. Nothing else really happened in his one term of office except for a depression which he helped continue. Check out the White House webpage for details. http://www.whitehouse.gov/
Even his father’s claim to fame was back in the days of the Continental Congress, not his two terms as VP and once as the Pres. Quincy didn’t even have that much going for him.
His one claim is that he’s the only son of a President to be elected President himself, and if Dubya takes the White House in the fall elections (shudder) He’ll lose even that!
Hmmm…the whole thing about Woodrow Wilson-the guy was also president during the Great War, and what with the Zimmerman note and the Lusitania and the women’s suffrage movement…maybe not.
Ah, the Russo-Japanese War. I’m a Russian history major…teehee! Basically, it was a disgrace,
I do remember something about Teddy meeting with the Tsar’s brother, Grand Duke Mikhail, and the ever famous Grand Duchess Anastasia reading about Teddy’s daughter. (Not really relevant, but I thought I’d toss it in, you guys don’t want to get me started talking about Nicky and the rest of the Romanovs).
I always remember that Taft was president when the Titanic sank, and one of his aides de camp, Archie Butt, was one of those who didn’t make it. (Imagine having Butt as your last name!)
As for Cal, I remember a history teacher telling us that he used to like making prank calls…one night, at about 4 am, he called up one of his aides. The guy was dragged out of bed only to have Coolidge say, “Hey, so and so, what are you doing up at this late hour?”
Hmmmm…
Holy mother of god, child - John Adams was one of the finest statesmen this country has ever seen, and had more to do with (and got less credit for) winning this country’s independence and setting up the government than anyone of his time. Alas, he did screw up when he was VP under Washington and set a precedence for the buffoonery that is the VP position, mostly because he was pretty miffed that he wasn’t getting the credit he deserved.
Speaking of Vice Presidents, if you can, all you Dopers, get the book Bland Ambition - the funniest history book I ever read, all about our VP’s.
And if you want to listen to a fun, uplifting, inspiring play about presidential assasins, listen to Sondheim’s “Assasins,” which includes Garfield, McKinley, Lincoln and Kennedy’s assasins, and the people who attempted to assasinate Ford, Roosevelt and Nixon.
Oh, and James Buchanan was probably gay, as was van der King, a VP (known around Washington as “Miss Nancy”).
My vote for most obscure? Benjamin Harrison. Didn’t even know we had two Harrisons until I saw the list of presidents.
(By the by, you are required to be born in the United States in order to be eligible to become president, AFAIK.)
Esprix: You’ve read Bland Ambition, and you like Sondheim’s Assassins?
Boy, if I were gay, matt_mcl would be getting a run for his money in the “flirting with Esprix” race.
As for Van Buren- I’m not sure he’s quite as obscure as B. Harrison or Arthur anymore; you heard a lot of his name back in '88 when George Bush was going to be “the first sitting VP elected since Martin Van Buren.” But maybe I just have a memory for those sorts of things.
And given Van Buren’s known opportunism and Machiavellan nature, I’ll celebrate a “Chester A. Arthur Day”, but not a “Van Buren/Arthur Day”. Hell, I’ve even got the muttonchops for it.
Not to defend Eisenhower, who I think is culpable in the idiotic build up of “OH MY GOD WE’RE GOING TO DIE” forces versus the commies, but he was instrumental in creating the United States Interstate system, which I am willing to lay damn good odds has helped boost the commerce of the country like crazy.
Are you kidding? No, JQA won’t win any historian surveys for best overall president, but I have heard him nominated for best Secretary of State ever. He was the impetus behind the Monroe Doctrine, he’s so far the only ex-pres to serve in the House of Reps after his term as president (Andrew Johnson was the only one who served in the Senate,) and he was famous for his attempts to remove the “Gag Rule” on Slavery and for defending the men of the Amistad. Dubya (and this is premature) should only do half as well, and I’d be pleasantly surprised.
What about John Hanson, first President? (Under the Articles of Confederation, where we had a President a year) Of course, I’ve heard of him, and I think Cecil or maybe the mailbag had a column, so it could be any of the seven that succeeded him.
Hmmm, in high school my AP History book referred to it as the Sino-Russian War. And then the only class in college that discussed it to any degree referred to it in the same way.
But doing some quick searching I see that Russo-Japanese War is by far the more common term.
Primarily that’s because the adjective ‘Sino-’ more properly refers to the Chinese, not the Japanese. Which is why you may have heard a lot about Sino-Soviet relations during the 60s and 70s.
Good point about John Hanson, one of the Presidents under the Articles of Confederation. It’s amazing how many people just don’t ask the question “Well, who led the country after we declared independence but before Washington was elected?”
In that vein, would John Hancock count? IIRC he presided over the Congress of 1776 and was hence the first President of the independent colonies. Only way we know about him now is thru his signature and the accompanying euphemism.
Not only was he one of the prime forces in getting the Revolution, he also played a great part in making sure the US did not become subservient to France, and negotiated a treaty with the Netherlands, as well as the final peace treaty which gave the US boundaries from the Atlantic to the Great Lakes.
[hijack]
Ah, Assassins. One of my top 3. I was a happy person when I got to perform “Gun Song” in a revue. “I’ve got this really great gun. Shit! Where is it? No it’s really great, wait! Shit! Where is it?”
Rumor has it that it is coming to Broadway for the first time. Anyone heard?
[/hijack]
I thought that Buchanan was the one known as Miss Nancy (Aunt Nancy?) De Vane King does have the record for the shortest term as VP.
(And dammit Esprix, get out of my thoughts. Between your post here, and your description-of/thoughts-on your relationship in MPSIMS, I’m starting to wonder if you were my good twin in a former life.)
A few comments on the presidents:
Washington: Big, imposing man with plenty of smarts. People even urged him to become king when we became independent from England–a suggestion that horrified himn. He was so strong during his physical prime he could bend a horseshoe.
John Adams–only president whose son became president–and the elder John was able (at age 89!) to go to Washington to see his son sworn in.
Jefferson–probably one of the most learned presidents–founded the University of Virginia, authored the state’s statute for religious freedom, wrote the Declaration of Independence. (He noted all three of these things in his epitaph and made no mention of being president.) We today should be ashamed for remembering him for the “Sally Heming affair.”
James Madison–had the most celebrated wife (Dolley) until Eleanor Roosevelt.
John Quincy Adams–a rather ascetic New Englander, but quite high-minded–in re his effort to overthrow the House of Representative’s “gag rule” (vd. supra). Perhaps the only president who had a son who may have been a suicide.
Andrew Jackson–reviled as a slaveholder; but he did more to combat the philosophy of states’ rights–he regretted not sending his states’-rights vice president, John C. Calhoun, to the gallows!–than most Northerners. I’d say he contributed plenty toward overthrowing the institution of slavery, in his own way.
Martin Van Buren–I don’t think he was vindictive, but I bet that, in a sense, he had the last laugh when Harrison died in office after one month. (Hey, the Whigs should have picked a younger figurehead.)
James Knox Polk–Harry S Truman listed Polk as one of his best American presidents. Polk is undeservedly obscure, just because he–like his wife Sarah–was a low-key person.
Millard Fillmore–he should be the all-time obscure president, as Mad Magazine once commented, in a sppoof of book clubs including the “Millard Fillmore Book Club,” in which was this list of titles:
The Day Millard Fillmore Didn’t Shave, by Jim Bishop, 110 pages
Who in Heck Was Millard Fillmore Anyhow? by Benj. Harrison, 1 page
Franklin Pierce–may have been the first alcoholic president. No surprise–at least one of his children died young.
James Buchanan–Gay? No way!! He courted a young woman, who apparently died tragically. (During his term his niece Harriet Lane served as hostess.) He once gave a group of Washington society women a tour through the White House, and at the end one woman commented, “I notice only one fault in this house, Mr. President–that there is no lady of the house.”
Buchanan answered sadly, “Madam, that is not a fault. It is my misfortune.”
Andrew Johnson–Gutsy enough to refuse to resign his Senate seat when his state seceded–the only Southern senator to do so. He wasn’t afraid of the Radical Republicans, either.
Rutherford B. Hayes–OK, so he was obscure. Who knew who Tilden was, for that matter?
Grover Cleveland–like Clinton, reviled by Republicans for his hypothetical sexual promiscuity–a clear case, IMHO, of people who had damn well better get out of their own glass houses (ever see the cartoon of the tattooed Blaine, “Phryne before the Chicago Tribunal”?) before they have any right to throw stones!
William McKinley–contemporary cartoonists referrred to him as “The Trusts’ Little Boy,” implying that multimillionaire industrialists and robber barons had McKinley in their pocket.
William H. Taft–Was much happier as Chief Justice than as President. Appointing him was one of two positive things Harding did–the other was granting a pardon to Eugene Debs.
Calvin Coolidge–He commented, “The business of America is business.” According to a history professor of mine, Coolidge’s laissez-faire attitude toward business was the main cause of the Great Depression.
Dwight D. Eisenhower–Mad Magazine again had the best comment on Ike:
“He was elected in November, 1952. He was inaugurated January 20, 1953. And he took over his duties in January, 1959, following the death of John Foster Dulles.”
John F. Kennedy–I vividly remember November 22, 1963. I was in high school when the principal nade an announcement about JFK’s death overt the PA system. I could see girls crying. (I later found out that when Fidel Castro announced Kennedy’s assassination to Cuban schoolchildren, they cheered. Is that sick or what?)
Lyndon Johnson–OK, no substitute for JFK, but a better choice than Barry “Extremism-in-Defense-of-Liberty-is-no-vice” Goldwater.
Richard Nixon–Ashley Montagu, in the Book of Lists, included Nixon in his list of “Worst Well-Known People in History”–along with Hitler, Heinrich Himmler, Nero, and Stalin.
Gerald Ford–Good God, he’s left-handed! Left-handers in a right-handed world certainly have problems–but even I (I would not have voted for Ford, for other reasons) believe the press gave Ford a bum rap.
Jimmy Carter–we tend to forget that Carter forged a peace accord in the Middle East, with Sadat and Begin.
Reagan–when he was governor of California, the Symbionese Liberation Army captured newspaper heiress Patty Hearst and demanded that her family pay, as ransom, millions of dollars in free food for the needy. According to Esquire, Ronnie said, “It’s just too bad we can’t have an epidemic of botulism.”
George Bush–“Read my lips: No New Taxes.” 'Nuff sed.
Bill Clinton–see Grover Cleveland, supra.
Well, sir, we New Yorkers did! And if most historians are to be believed, a majority of the voters did too. Did his Boss Tweed Ring busting antics, and subsequent governorship, not make national headlines?
Incidentally, from what I know about Tilden if he had been installed as prez, we wouldn’t be arguing if there’d ever been a gay chief exec!
Okay, this has been running through my head since I opened this:
We are the mediocre presidents;
You won’t find our faces on dollars or on cents!
There’s Taylor, there’s Tyler, there’s Fillmore and there’s Hayes,
There’s William Henry Harrison–“I died in thirty days!”
hehe. Hope y’all didn’t think I was giving anyone short shrift on that list of mine. I’m well aware that Adams was a fine statesman and had a list of accomplishments as long as my arm. With that list, I just wanted to eliminate obvious non-candidates for the title of “most obscure”, not write a full biography of each former Prez. Anyway, carry on…
