# Most Over-Rated Film Directors
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [October 10, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462 "2004-10-10T10:05:31Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/1 "2004-10-10T10:05:31Z")
I nominate Tim Burton. The guy’s an OK visual stylist, in a Teen Goth kind of way, but that doesn’t make up for his total lack of ability to tell a coherent story. In most of his movies, a bunch of stuff just happens without rhyme or reason: why was The Joker trying to kill all of Gotham City in Batman? Why didn’t Wynona Ryder’s character receive any comeuppance for her backstabbing in Edward Scissorhands? What was the twist in Planet Of The Apes all about? I can’t think of any of his movies that have engaged me on even the simplest narrative level.
He can’t handle actors, either. He had a fantastic cast in Mars Attacks, and most of them he just left floundering, trying to keep up with the non-existent storyline: apart from Jack Nicholson, who got to play Jack Nicholson {see Batman, above}, nobody else had anything to do. Why cast the inexpressive Mark Wahlberg in Planet Of The Apes, unless Keanu Reeves was busy that week? Why cast actors of the calibre of Christopher Lee and Michael Gambon in Sleepy Hollow and then give them cardboard characters?
To me he just comes over as an overage, hipper-than-thou adolescent: look, the Martians can be killed by playing Slim Whitman - isn’t old people’s music silly? Look, nobody understands Johnny Depp’s sensitivity - bet you can identify with that, right, kids? Ah, the guy just leaves me cold.
So, who’s your nominee? No cow too sacred, not even the Coen Brothers, Stanley Kubrick or George Lucas.
---
### Author:  [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/2 "2004-10-10T10:18:44Z")
Spielberg: Hack.
Lucas: Hack.
Tarentino: high hackfactor.
Coen Bros.: Hit and miss.
Kurosawa: Overrated.
---
### Author:  [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/3 "2004-10-10T10:47:09Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> Spielberg: Hack.
>
> Lucas: Hack.
>
> Tarentino: high hackfactor.
>
> Coen Bros.: Hit and miss.
>
> Kurosawa: Overrated.
Ah, but why? {Where in NZ, by the way? I’m in Auckland, which is neither here nor there}
---
### Author:  [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/4 "2004-10-10T10:58:00Z")
I’d say John Ford, who undoubtedly had some gifts at visual expressiveness, but so frequently indulged in or encouraged shallow characterization, broad hamminess, race baiting, and political reductiveness that I find many of his films, especially the westerns, semi-unbearable (despite their limited aesthetic elegance), especially compared to the far superior westerns of his underrated contemporaries Anthony Mann & Budd Boetticher. There are some genuinely great films by him, but not nearly as many as his reputation implies.
---
### Author:  [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/5 "2004-10-10T12:07:00Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#):
>
> Anthony Mann & Budd Boetticher
–Are my second and third favorite directors of Westerns (leaving aside Leone for the moment; he’s in a class by himself), after John Ford.
I still haven’t been able to figure out why, but there’s something so human and comforting in Ford’s movies; all of them. Ford is about the only director I can think of whose movies I could watch and rewatch any time at all. If I’m feeling worried or tense, I put in a John Ford film. His films make me feel comfortable and happy. I’ve thought and thought and thought, and watched and watched and watched, and I just cannot figure out what he does that just works so well, it just works.
Personally, though I agree that Mann and Boetticher are exTREEMly underrated, I feel that John Ford is too. Too many people dismiss him as a direct of Westerns, exclusively, when no one has EVER been as independent of their genre and its accompanying expections as Ford.
Anyway, even though I hate–HATE HATE HATE–threads that are started for the sole purpose of negativity (they’re rarely good for nothing except the airing of ignorance and prejudice), having stepped this deeply into it, I’ll bite:
_Stephen Spielberg_, sentimental dishonest propagandist and obseqious self-loather, can kiss my entire ass.
_George Cukor_ was a shallow sentimentalist.
_Don Siegel_ is a no-talent genre hack.
And having discovered his mentor (and very much his better), Kenji Mizoguchi, I’m gonna hafta agree with \*\*Ilsa \*\*that \*Kurosawa \*is pretty overrated.
And as far as the OP goes, _Tim Burton_, when he’s good, he’s masterful (_Edward Scissorhands_ [someone needs to make _E.S._ a grand opera]_, Ed Wood, Mars Attacks!_), but when he’s bad, hes bad (_Planet of the Apes, Sleepy Hollos, Big Fish_).
---
### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/6 "2004-10-10T12:08:08Z")
Robert Altman, by a country mile. It’s not just that he’s never made a great film (“Nashville” and “Short Cuts” were good, not great). It’s not just that he’s made a lot of bad films. It’s that nobody has ever made so many HORRIBLE films and still been called a genius.
---
### Author:  [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/7 "2004-10-10T12:29:13Z")
Stanley Kubrick, who made great looking movies with no soul, no humanity.
---
### Author:  [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/8 "2004-10-10T12:42:21Z")
**Woody Allen**
So he makes some humerous movies set in New York City. Big deal. He’s not God, people.
---
### Author:  [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/9 "2004-10-10T12:57:37Z")
You beat me to it, **Agrippina**.
And **Middlecase** ’s argument is persuasive – I suddenly realize that the many misses really _aren’t_ the exceptions, but the rule. (I’m a sucker for good visuals, what can I say, I got snowed.)
---
### Author:  [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/10 "2004-10-10T13:02:08Z")
> [@twickster](#):
>
> You beat me to it, **Agrippina**.
I saw an episode of “Seinfeld” where Allen is filming a movie near Jerry’s apartment and Kramer gets a chance to have a speaking part. I know it was just fictional characters, but the way they were salivating at the fact that the GOD WOODY ALLEN was filming a movie near them…ugh. I was like, “Who gives a shit?” I’m sure this performance is not exaggerated amongst some in New York City.
---
### Author:  [@Avumede](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avumede)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/11 "2004-10-10T13:13:21Z")
The only one I agree with so far is Lucas, all the others truly deserve their reputation. In fact, i think many of those listed aren’t appreciated enough.
Anyone who thinks Woody Allen’s movies are just comedies set in New York either isn’t very familiar with his work, or is missing something. You may think he sucks, but you cannot deny that many of his films attempt to be more than comedies. In fact, a few are not comedies at all.
And Kubrick films lacking humanity? For the most part, nonsense. Barry Lyndon, for example, has plenty of humanity.
---
### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/12 "2004-10-10T13:14:59Z")
Bergman: his films are borrrrring, so obviously trying to be “artsy” and “deep”
On John Ford:
> [@](#):
>
> John Ford, who undoubtedly had some gifts at visual expressiveness, but so frequently indulged in or encouraged shallow characterization, broad hamminess, race baiting, and political reductiveness
I profoundly disagree. I don’t find any shallow characters in Ford (well, OK, occasionally a bit-player here or there, but even they are often given a surprising depth and respect.) He conveys that depth of character with a minimalist approach – you’re supposed to catch on by small gestures, a look, tiny camera movements. If you’re not watching, if you’re letting it float by on TV, you’ll miss it and think you’ve got shallow characters. (I’m specifically thinking of the opening sequence of THE SEARCHERS, but this happens throughout Ford’s work.)
“Broad hamminess” is often used for comic effect, but that was the style of the time. Don’t blame Ford for using genre conventions (or creating them.)
“Race baiting” is something I will emphatically deny. First, there’s realilty. As an example: Ford was a great friend of the native Americans, especially the Navajo. Whenever he heard that they were having a hard year economically, he’d go out there to make a movie and bring money and employment. Second, there’s the films. Ford treats the native Americans far more sympathetically than any other director of Westerns – think of the chief in SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON, lamenting the generational gap. Think of CHEYENNE AUTUMN, a film devoted to the Cheyenne Trail of Tears. Think of SGT RUTLEDGE, about a black soldier unjustly accused of crimes because he’s black. Think of the dignity given to Woody Strode’s character in LIBERTY VALENCE. No, sorry, I know that this charge is commonly raised against Ford, but it’s just not true.
PS - I met Ford, back in 1968 (give or take a year.) He visited University of Chicago when I headed the film society, and I got to spend most of two days with him. He was a character, no question about it.
---
### Author:  [@Agrippina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agrippina)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/13 "2004-10-10T13:18:16Z")
> [@Avumede](#):
>
> Anyone who thinks Woody Allen’s movies are just comedies set in New York either isn’t very familiar with his work, or is missing something. You may think he sucks, but you cannot deny that many of his films attempt to be more than comedies. In fact, a few are not comedies at all.
Oh, I think some of his movies ARE funny, but I just don’t think he’s this God that the entertainment world, and others, treat him like. That’s all.
---
### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/14 "2004-10-10T13:47:53Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#):
>
> Spielberg: Hack.
>
> Lucas: Hack.
>
> Tarentino: high hackfactor.
>
> Coen Bros.: Hit and miss.
>
> Kurosawa: Overrated.
Christ, man, who isn’t a hack, in your book?
I can see maybe a bit on the Lucas and Spielberg thing, just because they tend to make “popular” films and not “arty” films, but popular isn’t necessarily bad.
I don’t think any of them are overrated. I think most of them are perfectly-rated. Except Kurosawa; he was a maverick and deserves the nod.
I agree with the OP: Tim Burton. Never did much for me. I recently watched _Big Fish_ and I thought it was horrible pap wrapped up in all the optical trickery Burton hoped to squeeze into picture sometime or another … so he did.
On the other hand … Kubrick – has got to be my fav. I just watched a special on him on HBO. Brilliant!
---
### Author:  [@Albert\_Rose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Albert_Rose)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/15 "2004-10-10T14:48:13Z")
I loved the last 30 minutes or so of _Big Fish_. Profoundly moving. Oh, well…
I try not to be “smart” enough to dislike most Primarily-Artistic directors (as opposed to Primarily-Commercial ones) like many of the aforementioned fellows, but I still don’t care for Spielberg or Ron Howard – masters of the overdone emotional sledgehammer.
---
### Author:  [@Keapon\_Laffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keapon_Laffin)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/16 "2004-10-10T14:56:04Z")
_James Cameron_ way, way, way overrated.
Not a big fan of Terminator (lets face it, the only saving grace was the special effects for T1000). And Titanic was the biggest waste of budget on a movie I’ve ever seen.
---
### Author:  [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/17 "2004-10-10T15:41:57Z")
I’m sorry, but Spielberg is an extremely talented director and so is Lucas. Lucas, however, is a pretty bad screenwriter in the minature (his dialogue is very weak) although he is pretty good in creating the broad strokes of a story.
My nominee is Kevin Smith, who I think is a poor director, but a very talented writer.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/18 "2004-10-10T16:38:08Z")
OK, I’ll fight.
Burton: uneven and somewhat overrated, but his best stuff (_Beetlejuice_, _Edward Scissorhands_, and, IMO _Big Fish_) is really very good indeed.
Spielberg is a frickin’ genius of the visual, a great director of actors, and a masterful storyteller Unfortunately, I will agree he has a major Achilles’ heel: a streak of flabby sentimentality a mile wide. For example, the raw power of both _Schindler’s List_ and _Saving Private Ryan_ were completely demolished by their lengthy and entirely clumsy closing scenes. And if I never see _E.T._ again it’ll be too soon. But a hack? Tish, I say, and Tosh.
Lucas: yes, except for his first two films (_THX 1138_ and _American Grafitti_), the hack of all hacks. OTOH, part of the reason, I think, is that he pretty much gave up directing to be a producer and effects-house businessman after the first _Stars Wars_ film. He would have done himself a great favor (as a director) if he had walked away from the franchise and never done another space opera.
John Ford: interesting but frankly a bit weird in his complete lack of understanding of or empathy for women.
James Cameron: agreed. Most overrated of all current directors. Hack of the first order. Can’t stand his bombastic ass.
Kubrick: lacked humanity? Bullshit. He just lacked easy sentimentality. That charge, btw, is frequently leveled at the Coens, and I’ll call a pre-emptive ‘Bullshit’ on that one as well.
Woody Allen: any previous interest utterly destroyed by his having made basically the same film thirty-odd times. Way past his sell-by date.
Ron Howard: bags of cheap sentimentality again, but without the genius visual chops to make up for it. Not horrible, just uninteresting.
And just to stir up the pot a little, I’ll nominate Nicholas Ray as my personal candidate for most highly overrated. I actually sort of like _Johnny Guitar_ for it’s deep wierdness, but everything else I’ve seen of his is way too artificial and unrealistic (in both visual style and character behavior) for my tastes.
---
### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/19 "2004-10-10T17:39:55Z")
Didn’t the whole over-rating of directors start forty-odd years ago courtesy of the French, with the _auteur_ theory? And wasn’t it discredited within twenty years with the fizzle of Francis Coppola\* (One from the Heart, Apocalypse Now)? So it seems that by now “He’s a Genius” is more likely to mean “He can deliver a sensational opening weekend.” Certainly making one a Commander, but hardly qualifying one as a Leo Tolstoly or Rembrandt of the medium of film.
\*Of course, it can be argued that cocaine did to American Film in the late 1970’s what Stalin did to Russian literature in the 1930’s, so directors really are geniuses and I’m to dense to appreciate Eyes Wide Shut.
---
### Author:  [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)
#### Post date: [October 10, 2004, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462/20 "2004-10-10T17:59:38Z")
Spielberg learned pretty early how to manipulate the heartstrings with cute moppet kid actors. He never quite mastered it, though, which explains failures like _Hook_ and _A-I_. But he still has some brilliand movies to his credit.
Woody Allen has definitely gone to the “Screwball Comedy in Manhattan” well a few times too often. But sometimes he’ll veer into a totally different direction, and make something transcendently wonderful like _Crimes and Misdemeanors_ or _Shadows and Fog_. And even his worst _Annie Hall_ retread is pretty damned watchable.
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-over-rated-film-directors/268462.md?page=2)