# Most Overrated and Underrated American Presidents **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 25, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355 "2010-02-25T03:14:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/21 "2010-02-26T00:32:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Overrated: > **Ronald Reagan** – part of this is my own politics, but it’s primarily due to the Reagan worship these days (e.g., the people who are working to have something named after him in every county in the US). Reagan may have been a good president, but the worship of him and his memory – compared to the the facts of his administration – is verging on the ridiculous. Right. Reagan could be the greatest American who ever lived AND the best president and he’d still be badly over-rated these days. People talk about him like he was an Aztec God who will give them a good harvest if they offer him their beating hearts. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/22 "2010-02-26T00:40:09Z")
Overrated: Reagan Underrated: Polk - He may not be underrated in the eyes of historians, but I think he’s underrated in the sense that Joe-Six-Pack has never heard of him, but should have. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/23 "2010-02-26T01:31:52Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > **Thomas Jefferson** - Completely disagree. Jefferson was a fantastic president, and while Adams did cede power somewhat peacefully, Jefferson restored much of the damage that could have been done by his predecessor to public faith in government and in the office itself. I think he’s generally thought of highly because his contributions to the Republic are immense, and he was an effective president. He also reduced the size of the military while actively antagonzing Britain and the New England states with the Embargo Act-which led to America’s near disaster in the War of 1812. > [@](#): > > **Woodrow Wilson** - Overrated, but not among the _most_ overrated. I guess there is a lot of anti-Fed sentiment going around nowadays though, and he was quite a bastard. Going by the rankings of US Presidents in the Historical Rankings of American Presidents in Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical\_rankings\_of\_US\_presidents](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_US_presidents), Wilson has consistenly been rated by historians as one of the top 10 Presidents. > [@](#): > > **John F. Kennedy** - JFK is romanticized, but not necessarily overrated. He was a great and effective president given political climate of the time and his short term in office. Going by accomplishments as President Kennedy did far less than Nixon and thus should be rated lower. He didn’t support the anti-Communists in the Bay of Pigs invasion. > [@](#): > > **James K. Polk** - He’s always rated rather highly, so I can’t consider him overrated. By the polls, the best his gotten is 8th place-but in my opinion he was far greater than that. > [@](#): > > **Chester A. Arthur** - Agreed he is underrated (though again, not sure about _most_). I was listing some of the most underrated. > [@](#): > > **William McKinley** - He always seems to be rated rather highly, so I don’t see McKinley as underrated. He’s always ranked lower than Wilson or Jackson which is laughable. > [@](#): > > **Richard Nixon** - What is it with Nixon lately? The apologists seem to be out in droves since about 2005. Nixon had accomplishments, and rarely do people fail to mention them in preface to, or as footnotes for, the true centerpiece of his presidency. His rankings have consistently been in the bottom tier when in actuality he was a better president than Kennedy. > [@](#): > > I’m truly surprised at the reasons you consider Nixon “underrated”, given you seem to consider Jackson “overrated” for the same reasons - effective in a few areas, but unforgivably bastardly in others. The distinction is their mode of execution and standards of the time. I’d forgive Jackson before Nixon, considering Jackson’s treatment of Native Americans may have been viewed differently in the 1820s/30s, but Nixon’s tricks were unacceptable in any era. Watergate did not kill thousands of people. > [@gallows\_fodder](#): > > **Curtis** , aren’t you in 8th grade? Do you go to a middle school with a great history curriculum? I don’t think I had learned enough about the presidents by 12th grade to determine which were under- or over-rated, sad to say. > > Or am I confusing you with another poster? I study history independently also. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/24 "2010-02-26T01:48:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Going by the rankings of US Presidents in the Historical Rankings of American Presidents in Wikipedia: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical\_rankings\_of\_US\_presidents](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_US_presidents), Wilson has consistenly been rated by historians as one of the top 10 Presidents. Might reply with more thoughts later, but I’m going to retract what I said above and agree with you on Wilson. We’d probably disagree on where his true ranking ought to be, but that’s not the subject of this thread. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/25 "2010-02-26T02:02:41Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Watergate did not kill thousands of people. Correct. It only damaged democracy, endangering the freedom of a couple of hundred million. Remember, when the President no longer gives a shit about the law or the will of the voters, we’re no longer entirely free, are we? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/26 "2010-02-26T02:35:52Z")
I just finished [The Pirate Coast](http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Coast-Jefferson-Marines-Mission/dp/1401300030) about the Barbary Pirate wars and I have to agree with Thomas Jefferson on the overrated list. That whole thing was one large American clusterfuck from beginning to end and much of the blame falls to Jefferson. Add in his moronic and ruinous Embargo Act and his presidency borders on failure. He drafted the Declaration of Independence, he had one of the most astonishing minds of his time but his presidency doesn’t crack the 50 percentile. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/27 "2010-02-26T02:36:31Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Correct. It only damaged democracy, endangering the freedom of a couple of hundred million. Remember, when the President no longer gives a shit about the law or the will of the voters, we’re no longer entirely free, are we? Kennedy commited electoral fraud in the 1960 Presidential election-which is if anything worse. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/28 "2010-02-26T02:58:36Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Correct. It only damaged democracy, endangering the freedom of a couple of hundred million. Remember, when the President no longer gives a shit about the law or the will of the voters, we’re no longer entirely free, are we? Watergate damaged democracy? Fine joke. The Supreme Court gutted the concept long before Tricky Dick got into office. Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Jules\_Andre](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jules_andre/32/9334_2.png) [@Jules\_Andre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jules_Andre)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/29 "2010-02-26T04:58:29Z")
**Underrated:** George W. Bush. He doesn’t get nearly enough credit for how catastrophic his presidency was. (What? I can’t believe I’m the first to make this joke.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/30 "2010-02-26T05:46:45Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I just finished [The Pirate Coast](http://www.amazon.com/Pirate-Coast-Jefferson-Marines-Mission/dp/1401300030) about the Barbary Pirate wars and I have to agree with Thomas Jefferson on the overrated list. That whole thing was one large American clusterfuck from beginning to end and much of the blame falls to Jefferson. Add in his moronic and ruinous Embargo Act and his presidency borders on failure. > > He drafted the Declaration of Independence, he had one of the most astonishing minds of his time but his presidency doesn’t crack the 50 percentile. The high point of Jefferson’s presidency was doubling the size of the country without starting an unjustified war. Apparently you think starting a war with Mexico to annex land entitled Polk to high ranking, but not Jefferson. It is consistent with your reasoning in other places. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/31 "2010-02-26T05:50:55Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Kennedy commited electoral fraud in the 1960 Presidential election-which is if anything worse. You’ve argued this point in GD and it has not gone well for you. I know other posters were able to cite the fact that Nixon’s people tried to find evidence of fraud and failed. At the moment I’m only feeling well enough informed to say this: Carter cannot possibly be overrated. Even liberals who admire the work he has done after his presidency agree that he was a bad president. I’ve lost track of how many times I have heard people say “He’s a good man, but he was a bad president.” It’s a point of almost universal agreement that he was indecisive, a micromanager, couldn’t negotiate Washington, and did little for national morale. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/32 "2010-02-26T07:17:55Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > At the moment I’m only feeling well enough informed to say this: Carter cannot possibly be overrated. Even liberals who admire the work he has done after his presidency agree that he was a bad president. I’ve lost track of how many times I have heard people say “He’s a good man, but he was a bad president.” It’s a point of almost universal agreement that he was indecisive, a micromanager, couldn’t negotiate Washington, and did little for national morale. I’m a liberal who did not like his presidency at the time. As noted above, I think he did things against his chances for popularity that were good for the country. I think he is underrated. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/33 "2010-02-26T13:56:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The high point of Jefferson’s presidency was doubling the size of the country without starting an unjustified war. Apparently you think starting a war with Mexico to annex land entitled Polk to high ranking, but not Jefferson. It is consistent with your reasoning in other places. After losing the army sent to deal with the Haitian Revolt to Yellow Fever and machete head wounds Napoleon had massive tracks of land in America he couldn’t defend or make use of, their loss was inevitable. He was over extended and knew it and the sale of the Louisiana territory could help fund the far more important European conflict. It was a ‘going out of business sale’ that fell into Jefferson’s lap. No where have I said anything about Polk. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/34 "2010-02-26T14:03:59Z")
Actually now I do recall the Polk conversation, but I think my argument was far more nuanced then you let on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/35 "2010-02-26T14:10:58Z")
I was talking about **Curtis LeMay’s** Polk/Jefferson split. I was fully aware that Nappy was having a fire sale. Jefferson took him up on it despite not having Congressional authority. That was contrary to Jefferson’s own theory of how government should work. It demonstrates to me that he was “flexible” enough to jump on an opportunity. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/36 "2010-02-26T14:14:27Z")
Or doesn’t have principles. Do I really have to defend LeMay’s entire list when discussing Jefferson now? ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/37 "2010-02-26T14:42:36Z")
Thirding (or nthing) Reagan for overrated. And not just because he’s worshipped now. I met him while he was in office, and dated his secretary’s son. I tried to ask him once about he Contra funding vote which was coming up the next afternoon. He. had. no. idea. Sweet, shaky, honestly concerned and very confused elderly man with no. idea. at. all. I still feel a chill up my spine when I think about it. Good man, puppet president. ---
**Author:** ![infinitii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@infinitii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/infinitii)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/38 "2010-02-26T14:59:11Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > I’m truly surprised at the reasons you consider Nixon “underrated”, given you seem to consider Jackson “overrated” for the same reasons - effective in a few areas, but unforgivably bastardly in others. The distinction is their mode of execution and standards of the time. I’d forgive Jackson before Nixon, considering Jackson’s treatment of Native Americans may have been viewed differently in the 1820s/30s, but Nixon’s tricks were unacceptable in any era. I was pretty confused by this as well. They are both pretty much my favourite presidents, and I find them very similar in the ways you mention. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/39 "2010-02-26T15:28:14Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > I’m a liberal who did not like his presidency at the time. As noted above, I think he did things against his chances for popularity that were good for the country. I think he is underrated. Yes, I know. You might be the first person I have ever heard say something positive about Carter’s term. I’ve heard a couple of people say his ‘if you’re cold, put on a sweater’ take was ahead of his time on energy issues. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355/40 "2010-02-26T15:33:08Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, I know. You might be the first person I have ever heard say something positive about Carter’s term. I’ve heard a couple of people say his ‘if you’re cold, put on a sweater’ take was ahead of his time on energy issues. I basically agree with the Second Stone about Carter, for what it’s worth; the depth of crap the US was in at the time was and remains underappreciated; Carter was the one who initiated the reforms that got us out of it, even though Reagan gets the credit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-and-underrated-american-presidents/530355.md?page=3)