# Most OVERRATED rock guitarist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121 "2009-07-15T16:20:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/41 "2009-07-16T17:02:35Z")
> [@cgg419](#): > > First of all, I respect the fact that you admit you’re not qualified to judge those particular guitar players. And I also totally agree that **no one** could live up to that kind of hype. But Dimebag without a doubt, and probably Randy Rhoads are anything but overrated. I haven’t heard nearly as much of Randy’s output as I have of Darrell’s, but both of those men were **amazing** guitar players. As a non-guitarist, I’ve always thought more highly of Rhoads than Dimebag, because Rhoads’ stuff just sounds harder to play. The climbing solo from _Bark at the Moon_ is a great example - if you watch Zakk Wylde (a pretty good guitarist in his own right) play it during live performances with Ozzy’s band you can see and hear that he doesn’t even try and play it properly; he plays a simplified approximation of it. Dimebag’s playing _sounds_ less difficult to me because it tends to be more repetitive, and I’ve always assumed that playing chords is much easier than picking single notes, assuming you’re switching off strings. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/42 "2009-07-16T17:35:26Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I think a classic example of what y’all are talking about is Alex Lifeson’s guitar solo in _Limelight_. It sounds pretty darned simple. But the Rush-fan guitarists I’ve talked to (I’m a member of an e-mail group dedicated to transcribing Rush’s music note-for-note, and the members of the group include members of at least one Rush tribute band) agree that it’s actually one of the most difficult solos to pull off correctly. It’s not flashy or fast, but man does it capture the emotion of the song. If there was a thread about most _underrated_ guitarists, he and Edge would get my vote. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/43 "2009-07-16T17:36:33Z")
Nitpick: _The Edge_. _Edge_ is a professional wrestler. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/44 "2009-07-16T17:47:27Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Okay, so I’m the guy who started with the Clapton-bashing but I want to come in and comment on this. Clapton, IMHO is not “soulless” - he is so fluid and smooth that his playing looks deceptively simple. He may not “sell” his leads with a lot of gestures, but he is called Slowhand for a reason. He’s all technique, no passion. His technique is outstanding, but it’s like a cook who follows the recipe to the letter without ever creating anything of his own. If you listen to the J.J. Cale songs he build his career by half-assing versus the Cale originals, you see the difference between “soul” and “precision.” Granted, it takes great talent to play that precisely, but talent without passion is like driving a car with a governor on the throttle. ---
**Author:** ![cgg419](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cgg419/32/2847_2.png) [@cgg419](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cgg419)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/45 "2009-07-16T17:53:49Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Dimebag’s playing _sounds_ less difficult to me because it tends to be more repetitive, and I’ve always assumed that playing chords is much easier than picking single notes, assuming you’re switching off strings. Again, I’ll say first off that I don’t disagree with your opinion on Randy Rhoads. I really haven’t heard all of even his limited output. But the idea that Dimebag (Darrell Abbott) didn’t play single notes is insane 😃 We can take Cowboys From Hell as an example. Earlier I was picking songs that resonated more emotionally with me [Cowboys From Hell](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-p8kvoyP4Y) ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/46 "2009-07-16T17:55:36Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Morello as a modern-day Page in terms of coming up with great riffs Now that I’ve seen this a few times in this thread, may I point out that it was John Paul Jones, the bass player, who came up with most of those well-known Zeppelin riffs? Page was responsible for all the bluesy chord-based songs, but Jones wrote most of those cool riffs. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/47 "2009-07-16T17:58:36Z")
> [@cgg419](#): > > But the idea that Dimebag (Darrell Abbott) didn’t play single notes is insane 😃 > > We can take Cowboys From Hell as an example. Earlier I was picking songs that resonated more emotionally with me > > [Cowboys From Hell](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-p8kvoyP4Y) Well, I’ll say this: when I became more familar with Pantera late in their careers I was pretty shocked to find out that there was only one guitarist, because some of their songs sound like there are three. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/48 "2009-07-16T18:16:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > As a non-guitarist, I’ve always thought more highly of Rhoads than Dimebag, because Rhoads’ stuff just sounds harder to play. The climbing solo from _Bark at the Moon_ is a great example - if you watch Zakk Wylde (a pretty good guitarist in his own right) play it during live performances with Ozzy’s band you can see and hear that he doesn’t even try and play it properly; he plays a simplified approximation of it. > > Dimebag’s playing _sounds_ less difficult to me because it tends to be more repetitive, and I’ve always assumed that playing chords is much easier than picking single notes, assuming you’re switching off strings. _Bark At The Moon_ was Jake E Lee, a good guitarist in his own right. Rhoads only played on _Blizzard of Ozz_ and _Diary Of a Madman_, IIRC. Ozzy never employed a crappy guitar player. ---
**Author:** ![cgg419](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cgg419/32/2847_2.png) [@cgg419](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cgg419)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/49 "2009-07-16T18:19:53Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Ozzy never employed a crappy guitar player. That is definitely a fact. But neither did Vinnie Paul 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/50 "2009-07-16T18:22:29Z")
Whoah. So it was. Well, fuck Randy Rhoads then. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/51 "2009-07-16T18:32:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Whoah. So it was. Well, fuck Randy Rhoads then. 😉 It’d be kind hard since he’s all skeletal and stuff by now. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/52 "2009-07-16T18:43:42Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Now that I’ve seen this a few times in this thread, may I point out that it was John Paul Jones, the bass player, who came up with most of those well-known Zeppelin riffs? Page was responsible for all the bluesy chord-based songs, but Jones wrote most of those cool riffs. \*\*Mister Rik \*\*- I all a huge JPJ fan and know he wrote some very cool stuff - the main riff to Trampled Under Foot comes to mind - but can you shed more light on your assertion? ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/53 "2009-07-16T19:16:05Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Up front: I’m not a guitarist, so I’m utterly unqualified to judge how difficult or how easy it is to play a given piece. > [@pulykamell](#): > > Also, it doesn’t matter how “hard” something is to play or not. All that matters is how it sounds in the end. I want to emphasize this. As Duke Ellington said, “If it sounds good, it _is_ good.” Music is not an Olympics gymanstics competition where you’re rated on difficulty. Sure, there is recognition of guys with chops, but chops don’t make a great musician. In fact, a lot of Beatles songs have great musicianship but none of those guys had much chops or dazzle. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/54 "2009-07-16T19:28:41Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > \*\*Mister Rik \*\*- I all a huge JPJ fan and know he wrote some very cool stuff - the main riff to Trampled Under Foot comes to mind - but can you shed more light on your assertion? All I can say is that I read the words coming out of JPJ’s mouth in an interview in, I think, Bass Player magazine, several years ago. ISTR him specifically citing _Black Dog, Kashmir_, and _The Immigrant Song_, but basically saying, “usually if it was a riff-based song, it was mine, if it was bluesy and chordal, that was Jimmy.” Of course, he was referring to main song riffs, not lead guitar licks. And clearly, the bass line is what makes songs like _Ramble On_ work. _The Ocean_ also sounds very JPJ-ish to me. Unfortunately, I’ve never been a big Zeppelin fan (though I love and respect JPJ’s playing, being a bassist myself), so I can’t cite many songs by name, even though I recognize them as LZ songs. There’s a particular Zep riff running through my head right now that clearly sounds as if it was written on the bass, but I’m completely clueless as to the song’s title. (Wait, just looked it up on YouTube: Heartbreaker.) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/55 "2009-07-16T19:34:29Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > All I can say is that I read the words coming out of JPJ’s mouth in an interview in, I think, Bass Player magazine, several years ago. ISTR him specifically citing _Black Dog, Kashmir_, and _The Immigrant Song_, but basically saying, “usually if it was a riff-based song, it was mine, if it was bluesy and chordal, that was Jimmy.” Of course, he was referring to main song riffs, not lead guitar licks. And clearly, the bass line is what makes songs like _Ramble On_ work. _The Ocean_ also sounds very JPJ-ish to me. > > Unfortunately, I’ve never been a big Zeppelin fan (though I love and respect JPJ’s playing, being a bassist myself), so I can’t cite many songs by name, even though I recognize them as LZ songs. There’s a particular Zep riff running through my head right now that clearly sounds as if it was written on the bass, but I’m completely clueless as to the song’s title. (Wait, just looked it up on YouTube: Heartbreaker.) Hmm - interesting. Not something I have heard much about; would love to hear/read more…I definitely think of Heartbreaker as a classic Pagey riff, but he certainly got plenty of influence from Willie Dixon, Robert Johnson and others… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/56 "2009-07-16T20:04:40Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > I want to emphasize this. As Duke Ellington said, “If it sounds good, it _is_ good.” Music is not an Olympics gymanstics competition where you’re rated on difficulty. Sure, there is recognition of guys with chops, but chops don’t make a great musician. In fact, a lot of Beatles songs have great musicianship but none of those guys had much chops or dazzle. Then I think you need to more clearly define the argument. It’s fair to say that the most _obvious_ meaning of “greatest guitarist” is “the one who is most technically proficient”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/57 "2009-07-16T20:23:24Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > Now that I’ve seen this a few times in this thread, may I point out that it was John Paul Jones, the bass player, who came up with most of those well-known Zeppelin riffs? In that case, JAMES PATRICK PAGE can go jump in a lake. (But only if Robert Johnson or Willie Dixon jumped in first. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/58 "2009-07-16T20:25:10Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > In that case, JAMES PATRICK PAGE can go jump in a lake. (But only if Robert Johnson or Willie Dixon jumped in first. ;)) Hey \*\*Marley \*\*- how come you make it a point to refer to him as JAMES PATRICK PAGE instead of plain ol’ Jimmy Page? No biggie, just curious… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/59 "2009-07-16T20:49:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Then I think you need to more clearly define the argument. It’s fair to say that the most _obvious_ meaning of “greatest guitarist” is “the one who is most technically proficient”. Just a quick note to say while it may be “obvious” it is certainly not universally accepted. I have gone out of my way in this thread to offer other criteria… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/60 "2009-07-16T21:11:22Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Hey \*\*Marley \*\*- how come you make it a point to refer to him as JAMES PATRICK PAGE instead of plain ol’ Jimmy Page? No biggie, just curious… A personal joke/tribute. I was playing guitar in the park a couple of weeks ago and this sweaty looking guy in a black t-shirt comes up to us. He looks like he doesn’t see the sun very much, he’s probably in his late 30s, likely lives in someone’s basement. So he sees me playing and asks who I like. I mention Derek Trucks and the guy knows who he is, but he’s not particularly impressed. He likes the guitarist from Led Zeppelin, but he calls him “James Patrick Page,” because the man is so awe-inspiring that his name is not to be shortened to Jimmy like a mere mortal. It is clear this man worships at the altar of JAMES PATRICK PAGE, can tell me which songs aren’t really about hobbits and where Zep was hanging out when they wrote which album, what mystical force killed Page’s son… Basically he’s something you don’t see much of these days- that really nerdy kind of hard rock fan, the “we’re not worthy!” type of guy. I didn’t think those existed anymore and I thought it was funny that I got stuck in a conversation with one. I played the riffs from three Zep songs while he was there and didn’t get any reaction, by the way. It was hard to get him to leave. So, for that sweaty guy, I’m writing it as JAMES PATRICK PAGE. It’s important to be properly reverential when discussing greatness. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121.md?page=4)