# Most OVERRATED rock guitarist? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121 "2009-07-15T16:20:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/61 "2009-07-16T21:19:23Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So, for that sweaty guy, I’m writing it as JAMES PATRICK PAGE. It’s important to be properly reverential when discussing greatness. Ah - that makes perfect sense! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/62 "2009-07-16T21:56:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Then I think you need to more clearly define the argument. It’s fair to say that the most _obvious_ meaning of “greatest guitarist” is “the one who is most technically proficient”. I disagree. A great painter is not one who is great with a brush and color mixing; a great artist can convey a depth of feeling through the art that cannot be conveyed in any other way. A great guitarist is a great musician whose instrument is the guitar, not someone who has mastered moving his fingers around the fretboard. Countless classical guitarists have surpassed Andres Segovia’s technical skills but few dispute his stature as one of the greatest classical guitarists ever. Hendrix is often cited as the greatest in all these lists, but he was not in fact a great technician. I, like most guitarists, get the sense that what he conceived in his head is exactly what we heard as musical notes and the guitar was simply a conduit to get that music out. He was also pehaps the most important innovator of rock guitar. There have been plenty of people who are gifted technically but play the \*guitar \*instead of playing _music_. I can think of at least one jazz guitarist who is amazing technically but his performances do not convey anything but sterile note-arrhea. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/63 "2009-07-17T00:54:29Z")
As a child of the early 80’s who loved late 60’s music, I loved some of Clapton’s earlier work, but as I dug further, I found his later work lifeless and flat. I’d see him perform (TV & concert footage, I never saw a Clapton concert), and it did little for me. Disappointing. I just don’t “get” Jack White. I know he’s supposed to be great, but every time I try to listen to him, I have to turn it off. Maybe I haven’t given him enough of a chance, but, from what I remember, he sounded harsh and atonal, and I didn’t hear any licks that sounded good to me. The songs didn’t pick me up and take me anywhere. I just felt assaulted. For comparison’s sake, I like Lindsey Buckingham, Van Halen (though it’s been awhile since Eddie’s done anything I’ve listened to), Stevie Ray Vaughan, Mark Knopfler, Duane Allman, and Neil Young. Terry Kath seemed to have a lot going for him, judging from his recorded work and a handful of performances I saw on Youtube. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/64 "2009-07-17T01:12:30Z")
**Frank Zappa**. I love the MoI and Zappa. But I think he sucked as a guitarist. **Ace Frehley**. I’ve heard garage bands who were much better than Kiss. **Eddie Van Halen** : Plays the same three riffs over and over. **Sammy Hagar** : I’ve never seen him do anything notable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/65 "2009-07-17T01:15:35Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > Countless classical guitarists have surpassed Andres Segovia’s technical skills but few dispute his stature as one of the greatest classical guitarists ever. Hendrix is often cited as the greatest in all these lists, but he was not in fact a great technician. I, like most guitarists, get the sense that what he conceived in his head is exactly what we heard as musical notes and the guitar was simply a conduit to get that music out. He was also pehaps the most important innovator of rock guitar. You’re not talking about guitarists; you’re talking about songwriters. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/66 "2009-07-17T03:31:45Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > I just don’t “get” Jack White. I know he’s supposed to be great, but every time I try to listen to him, I have to turn it off. Maybe I haven’t given him enough of a chance, but, from what I remember, he sounded harsh and atonal, and I didn’t hear any licks that sounded good to me. The songs didn’t pick me up and take me anywhere. I just felt assaulted. Jack White’s sound and style is definitely jagged. I wouldn’t really call it atonal (although he does sometimes venture “out” in his solos) but it’s sharper than what you’d be used to if you listen to typical blues-based lead guitarists. I kind of think of his style as a sort of blend of 70s-era blues rock (a la Page or Beck) with a post-punk tone and attack. I think it’s some of the most exciting guitar playing around today and seeing the White Stripes perform live simply blew me away. I could not believe a two-piece band could fill a room with sound and have so much presence. That said, I know several guitarists in the Jimmy Page/Eric Clapton/etc school that absolutely hate Jack White and think, quite simply, that he sucks. However, these same guitarists are stuck in the 70s in terms of musical tastes, so I take their opinions with that in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/67 "2009-07-17T04:27:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Jack White’s sound and style is definitely jagged. I wouldn’t really call it atonal (although he does sometimes venture “out” in his solos) but it’s sharper than what you’d be used to if you listen to typical blues-based lead guitarists. I kind of think of his style as a sort of blend of 70s-era blues rock (a la Page or Beck) with a post-punk tone and attack. I think it’s some of the most exciting guitar playing around today and seeing the White Stripes perform live simply blew me away. I could not believe a two-piece band could fill a room with sound and have so much presence. That said, I know several guitarists in the Jimmy Page/Eric Clapton/etc school that absolutely hate Jack White and think, quite simply, that he sucks. However, these same guitarists are stuck in the 70s in terms of musical tastes, so I take their opinions with that in mind. I was hoping someone might take a crack at explaining him to me. Thanks. As your guitarist friends are, I’m stuck in the 70’s. I really lack the vocabulary to discuss music in detail, but I think I’m accustomed to a certain song style and progression, and when something deviates too far from my expectations, I’m left unfulfilled. I listened to “Classic Rock” when it was called “Rock”, and I’ve never really made the transition to more modern music. As Frank Zappa said, “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.” Sadly, most of what Frank did was too “out there” for me as well. It sucks that that I don’t seem to be able to appreciate a lot of newer stuff, or even older music that is ‘more challenging’ than the mainstream. I’m afraid I know what my parents must have felt like when they complained about Hendrix or Eddie Van Halen. I don’t get it to such a degree that I’m really tempted to use some of their old comments: “That’s nothing but noise!” “That guy needs to learn how to play that thing!” It would be nice to appreciate and enjoy it, rather than be the old fart that talks about the Steve Miller Band concerts he went to. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/68 "2009-07-17T04:47:21Z")
> [@cgg419](#): > > Again, I’ll say first off that I don’t disagree with your opinion on Randy Rhoads. I really haven’t heard all of even his limited output. > But the idea that Dimebag (Darrell Abbott) didn’t play single notes is insane 😃 > We can take Cowboys From Hell as an example. Earlier I was picking songs that resonated more emotionally with me > > [Cowboys From Hell](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-p8kvoyP4Y) Dime was a remarkable guitarist, if for no other reason, because he somehow took that awful, AWFUL guitar tone and made it work. Made it sound good. In the hands of anybody even slightly less precise, that tin-can-full-of-icepicks-and-bees tone would have spiraled completely out of control. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/69 "2009-07-17T06:31:26Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > As Frank Zappa said, “Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.” Heh: “Humanity has advanced, when it has advanced, not because it has been sober, responsible, and cautious, but because it has been passionate, rebellious, and immature.” – Tom Robbins ---
**Author:** ![busterbloodvessel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e9c0ed/32.png) [@busterbloodvessel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterbloodvessel)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/70 "2009-07-17T09:33:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re not talking about guitarists; you’re talking about songwriters. When has Jimi Hendrix ever been considered a great songwriter? He didn’t write “Hey Joe” or “All Along the Watchtower” (Or “The Star Spangled Banner” for that matter). He’s famous for his guitar playing, deservedly so. ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/71 "2009-07-17T11:39:39Z")
> [@busterbloodvessel](#): > > When has Jimi Hendrix ever been considered a great songwriter? He didn’t write “Hey Joe” or “All Along the Watchtower” (Or “The Star Spangled Banner” for that matter). He’s famous for his guitar playing, deservedly so. He is also a great songwriter. [Crosstown Traffic](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB9pQ6KajaQ) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/72 "2009-07-17T11:43:46Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Dime was a remarkable guitarist, if for no other reason, because he somehow took that awful, AWFUL guitar tone and made it work. Made it sound good. In the hands of anybody even slightly less precise, that tin-can-full-of-icepicks-and-bees tone would have spiraled completely out of control. [So true](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=464315) (link to earlier thread delving into this). As for Jack White - as usual, \*\*pulykamell \*\*provided a solid overview. I’ll paste a link to a YouTube version of [I Want to Be the Boy To Warm Your Mother’s Heart](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHaLocX2yCs), off Elephant. I haven’t been able to get it to play consistently, so have been reluctant to link to it, but I am hopeful at least some of you will get a decent feed. This is a slower-paced, keyboard driven song - the only guitar part is the chorded slide work in the middle break. You can hear all the roots-based influence without the punky sneer or jagged/out guitar work - as I mentioned earlier, this slide is just ethereally glassy - close your eyes and provides a full sonic landscape, if that makes sense. I guess the point is this: Jack White is in control of his instrument, guitar and voice; when you hear this mellow piece or hear him veering “out of control” (or out of pitch), as a musician I am aware that he is making a choice, not just unschooled or slapdash. That’s fun and immediate - there really is a bit of unpredictibility - even at the same time that he is clearly holding tight to the basic rules of blues-based rock and punk. And his slop, because of its calculation and the technique he exhibits to drop it into his playing, sounds, well, cool. In an era where so much is processed - Auto-Tune anyone? Overcompressed, digital sounds that seem leeched of melody and, it feels at times, humanity? - to put your playing just _out there_, raw and with slop, but sticking close to familiar forms and riffs - it just sounds great to my ear… ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/73 "2009-07-17T12:02:08Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > I’ll paste a link to a YouTube version of [I Want to Be the Boy To Warm Your Mother’s Heart](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHaLocX2yCs), off Elephant. Okay - I got to watch it; this is a live version that is not as good for the points I was trying to make. [Please try the studio version from the CD](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXLeOz9y1QU)- the slide begins at ~1:53 in. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/74 "2009-07-17T14:35:46Z")
> [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](#): > > As a child of the early 80’s who loved late 60’s music, I loved some of Clapton’s earlier work, but as I dug further, I found his later work lifeless and flat. I’d see him perform (TV & concert footage, I never saw a Clapton concert), and it did little for me. Disappointing. Clapton’s output is certainly up and down. One view is that while he is an amazingly talented guitarist, he’s not even a good bandleader, and needs to play with someone who’ll push him. When he did – Bluesbreakers, the _Layla_ album, the solo for “While My Guitar Gently Weeps”, Blind Faith, Cream – he did great stuff (though with some misses as well, particularly with Cream’s self-indulgence). But when he was top dog, things fell off. Sort of too bad he never fell in early on with a Jagger or Greg Allman or Bono or Springsteen to have someone to keep pushing and pulling him along for his whole career. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/75 "2009-07-17T15:03:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You’re not talking about guitarists; you’re talking about songwriters. I have no idea how this responds to my post, or even what you mean by this. The musicians I mention in the text you quote are known primarily for their performances, not for songwriting. ---
**Author:** ![mbetter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@mbetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbetter)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/76 "2009-07-17T16:43:26Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Oh, and regarding **Joe Perry** , \*\*lieu \*\*- you know, I find it hard to argue with you. I love his stuff - well, the first 4 albums which have really held up, IMHO - but it is not like he forged new ground. I think he is a great example of a second-wave of blues-based rock guitarists… I still think that Brad Whitford is a better guitarist than Joe Perry and Izzy Stradlin was a better guitarist than Slash. Also Malcolm over Angus Young. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2009, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121/77 "2009-07-17T16:53:07Z")
> [@mbetter](#): > > I still think that Brad Whitford is a better guitarist than Joe Perry and Izzy Stradlin was a better guitarist than Slash. Also Malcolm over Angus Young. Dude - as I have said many times, I am a rhythm guitarist myself, so believe I _hear_ you. But rhythm guitar is an “inside baseball” kind of position - your average music consumer has little-to-know appreciation of either the importance of the role in a band - or how totally freakin’ cool it is to be that guy when your band is locked in. Note that I am NOT discussing being a side man - i.e., the rhythm guy taking orders from the musical director - I am talking about driving the music from that position, like Malcolm, Whitford, Stradlin, Townshend, etc. all do/have done. Few things cooler, my friend. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-overrated-rock-guitarist/503121.md?page=3)