Most produced aircraft

As shown in the panel links, the 172SP could have a glass panel or the old ‘steam gauges’. As far as the other improvements go, I’m not convinced they’re worth the four-fold increase over what the airplane should cost in current dollars. I’m guessing what it is is that there are fewer ‘real people’ buying airplanes, and schools need new airplanes to attract customers and to stay in business. So they’re neglecting private owners in favour of businesses.

Aw, I’m just pissed off that prices started skyrocketing just about the time I got my ticket. :frowning:

Not anymore. New ones come with dual G1000’s and the GFC700 standard.

IOW, This is not your father’s 172.

I know it seems that way, Johnny, but as I make my second foray into aircraft ownership, the costs just don’t bear that out. I’m as quick as the next guy to grouse about lawyers and ridiculous lawsuits, but I don’t think they’re the main reason for the high cost of private aviation.

Currently it costs me less to insure my teenager in our Piper Arrow [google-image… not our plane] than it does to insure him in his Corolla. If lawyers were the main driver in aviation costs, I would expect insurance prices to be excessive (and they aren’t, for a non-rental, named-pilot policy).

I suspect the costs are high for two main reasons: 1) Labor, of any type, is more expensive nowadays and, 2) Small airplanes have lost the efficiencies of scale. Aircraft are labor intensive beasts, as any owner can attest after paying the mechanic for repairs or this year’s annual. Regarding production numbers, I suspect that if Toyota only produced a thousand cars annually, a Corolla would set you back a quarter mil, just like an airplane.

As far as used airplanes go, a brief perusal through http://www.trade-a-plane.com/ will show that the market for piston singles and twins is down considerably, and that plane ownership is not that far out of reach* anymore. Some are even predicting a market collapse in this sector due to dwindling pilots, and increasing costs.

*Beware. If anyone here is thinking of buying; remember that the purchase price is only the beginning of the wallet-hemorrhage known as “airplane ownership”

FTR: Any other A/C owners on the SDMB? What do you think drives up your costs?

A bit off topic but relevant. The Boeing plant in Renton, Washington has been the site of single aisle jet powered aircraft production since 1958. Next week 737 Next Generation airplane line number 3021 will roll off the assembly line, this will be the 10,000th jet aircraft produced at the Renton plant. When I was first hired at Boeing in 1980 (building boats!), the Renton plant was building 707’s, 727’s and 737’s.

Since I was hired at Boeing, the 707 and 727 lines were shut down, the 757 was started (I worked on line number 1) and was shut down. The 737 is still in production, very little except the basic airframe is the same as it was 29 years ago. I hope to retire in a bit over 9 years, hopefully we will still be building airplanes in Renton then.

Renton production numbers:
707 - 1010
727 - 1832
757 - 1050
737 - 6108

It doesn’t rank up there in terms of production numbers, but I just think the “CL-600” family is interesting, in that it started with abusiness jet and 2300 planes later, it’s morphed into this passenger jet. The CRJ-1000 is 1.877 times the size of the original Challenger 600.

In a similar vein, though not quite as impressive, is the 1000+ run of Dash-8s, which are now1.458 times longer than the original and still going strong.

Both are rather freaky to look at.

Hydrofoils? I was on one of those, once.

Used to fly out of Renton, too. Did my first solo there.

I believe the most-produced homebuild is the Van’s RV-6. Over 2000 of them are currently flying, so I imagine the number of kits produced is considerably higher. Great airplane.

As for the cost of aviation, a number of factors contributed:

  • Because of the way airplanes are maintained, used ones can be just about as good as new ones. So as more airplanes were made, they created their own competition in the form of an increasingly large used aircraft market.

  • Product liability plays a part, but not as big as some think. The incremental costs of increased liability insurance did make new airplanes less competitive against the large used fleet, but that’s just one contributing factor.

  • Type certification rules and regulations made it extremely hard to innovate. It’s just too expensive to make the kinds of annual incremental changes that autos can make, which again makes it harder for new aircraft to compete against used models.

The result of these factors was rapidly diminishing economies of scale. You can sell an aircraft a lot more cheaply if you can amortize your fixed costs and R&D over annual sales of 10,000 units than you can over annual sales of 200 units. As the number of aircraft produced declined, their unit cost necessarily had to go up. This also makes it even harder for aircraft companies to innovate - it’s difficult to recoup your investment in R&D and certification if you can only sell 200 planes a year.

The result as been a diminishing spiral of production efficiency, and that’s the real culprit. Product liability is part of it, but the real culprit is the large market of used aircraft that are just as good as the new ones. So the market has slowly changed - new planes are extremely expensive and purchased by wealthy people, but where there is a huge used marketplace of affordable aircraft where all the action is.

The real victim in all this is innovation. The pace of innovation in general aviation has been dreadful. The engine in a 1990 Skyhawk is essentially the same engine you would have found in a 1950’s version of the same airplane. Porsche tried to get in the engine game and failed because it was too expensive.

A lot of the innovation has actually come from homebuilt aircraft. The new Cessna low wing planes owe a lot to the development of composites for homebuilt use, and the development of new airframes by Glasair, Lancair, and other homebuilt manufacturers. The smaller Rotax engines were proven out in the homebuilt field where they didn’t have to be regulated.

If you want to revitalize aviation, product liability is only one part of it. You need to streamline certification procedures (which is happening under the VLA rules). I imagine that if you could wave a magic wand and destroy the used fleet (hey, cash for clunkers!), you’d create a robust new aircraft market - for a while, until a new used fleet developed.

But financially, this all isn’t that bad. Forget the price of new airplanes - the question is really whether a person of a normal middle class income can still fly. The answer is yes. A reasonable used 172 doesn’t cost any more to own than a low-end luxury car like a Lexus. The initial purchase cost may be higher, but the depreciation will be much lower.

I bought a 1974 Grumman AA1 in 1993 for $13,000. I sold it in 2001 for 11,500. I lost $1500 in 8 years to depreciation, and that’s because of the increased engine time. The airframe itself actually went up in value significantly. Had I held on to that airplane, I would have made money on it, because the same plane today is worth over $20,000 in the local market.

I could have bought a new car for $13,000, but after 8 years it would be worth close to zero. The airplane was much cheaper to own. Insurance was much less as well. Annual inspections (owner assisted) ran me about $300-$600 per year, and I paid $40/mo for a tie-down.

Aviation is still affordable. However, it’s becoming more difficult due to increased rules and regulations. That’s going to kill it faster than the cost of new airplanes. After that mid-air in New York last week, the yahoos in Congress are talking about requiring every aircraft to have collision-avoidance equipment installed. I doubt if that will happen because it’s such a stupid idea, but it’s that kind of nonsense (and the security rules stemming from 9-11) that are going to kill general aviation.