# Most "radical" U.S. President **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605 "2010-04-10T01:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/1 "2010-04-10T01:51:40Z")
Newt Gingrich, former Speaker of the House (1995–1999), recently called President Obama “the most radical administration in American history.” Gingrich may have been a history professor, but his remark made me wonder how far back his historical memory goes. Lyndon Johnson was more “radical” than Obama: the **Civil Rights Act** of 1964, the **Voting Rights Act** of 1965, the **Immigration Act** of 1965 (doubling immigration between 1965 and 1970), the **Elementary and Secondary Education Act** of 1965 (for the first time, large amounts of federal money went to public schools), he set up the the **National Endowment for the Humanities** and the **National Endowment for the Arts** , and last but not least, established **Medicare** and **Medicaid**. And Franklin Roosevelt was more “radical” than Obama and Johnson put together. In your opinion, whose was the most radical administration in American history? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/2 "2010-04-10T02:17:16Z")
Lincoln ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/3 "2010-04-10T02:30:50Z")
Washington. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/4 "2010-04-10T02:37:54Z")
Keep in mind that Newt Gingrich is really, really stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/5 "2010-04-10T02:49:19Z")
Teddy Fucking Roosevelt. That man was totally radical, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/6 "2010-04-10T02:49:39Z")
Why Lincoln and Washington? ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/7 "2010-04-10T03:08:52Z")
FDR and Jackson. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/8 "2010-04-10T03:12:34Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Keep in mind that Newt Gingrich is really, really stupid. Keep in mind he’s also a political hack whose duties include saying outrageous shit to rile up the base. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/9 "2010-04-10T03:12:44Z")
You can’t be more radical than revolutionary, so Washington wins. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/10 "2010-04-10T03:18:25Z")
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was the most radical. His presence in office fundamentally altered the role of the federal government and its relationship with citizen’s lives. Before him, there was little if any social safety net. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/11 "2010-04-10T03:21:01Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You can’t be more radical than revolutionary, so Washington wins. I don’t think that should count. Sure, he played a vital role in the American Revolution before he became President, but what major changes did he make _while he was President_? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/12 "2010-04-10T03:35:49Z")
Well, since a lot of the good choices have been taken, what about Jefferson? He came in under the premise of small government with a light touch, non-expansionist (i.e. not expanding US territory beyond what we already had), but during his administration he increased both the size and power of the federal government and also expanded our territory by something like a quarter. That was a pretty radical departure. The only other one I can think of (who hasn’t been named) is perhaps Andrew Jackson, but, really, I think that main contenders are FDR, Johnson and Teddy. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/13 "2010-04-10T03:50:05Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > FDR and Jackson. My picks as well. I’m going with “radical” as operating outside expectations and precedent and being a polarizing force. Jackson: [ul] [li]Trashed the White House with the mob he invited to celebrate his first inauguration party[/li][li]Started the spoils system in appointments[/li][li]Repeatedly called for the aboliton of the Electorial College[/li][li]Trail of Tears: As close as the US has come to genocide. While Jackson doesn’t deserve all the blame for it, he’s certainly deserves quite a bit.[/li][li]Nickname was “King Mob” for his pandering to the crowd, after the failed assasination attempt he even gained a sort of “divinely protected” aspect. W. had fewer people thinking he was appointed by God than Jackson did.[/li][/ul]FDR: How many presidents have amendments added to the Constitution just to prevent someone from duplicating their achievements? I wouldn’t count Washington either. It’s hard to place him since by default everything he did was precedent. Since he’s the baseline for presidential behaviour you can’t really be radical except by not being like him. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/14 "2010-04-10T03:56:54Z")
:smack: Oh…I didn’t know Jackson had been mentioned earlier. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/15 "2010-04-10T04:15:33Z")
Well, Lincoln ended slavery. I guess that makes him a free radical. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/16 "2010-04-10T04:17:31Z")
I gotta vote for Lincoln as well. He didn’t buckle down when the US wanted to split itself, he rolled up his sleeves, and we went off to war with ourselves. That’s pretty radical right there, Civil war and all. Not to mention dropping the Emancipation Proclamation out there in order to keep the Union going with a huge moral stance on its cause then. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/17 "2010-04-10T04:19:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, Lincoln ended slavery. … in the Confederacy. The 13th Amendment, which was adopted eight months after Lincoln’s death, ended it elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/18 "2010-04-10T04:21:05Z")
I would argue that Lincoln’s defending the Union was anti-radical. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/19 "2010-04-10T04:31:35Z")
Jefferson was **considered** pretty radical at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8dc957/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2010, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605/20 "2010-04-10T05:06:20Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I don’t think that should count. Sure, he played a vital role in the American Revolution before he became President, but what major changes did he make _while he was President_? What was there to change? He was the first president, so he set precedents, he didn’t change things. The most important precedent he set was leaving office after two terms. It took a radical like FDR to change that, and now there’s an amendment against it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-radical-u-s-president/535605.md?page=2)