# Most recent historical person(s) to have their name routinely translated when referenced ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 27, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865 "2016-10-27T18:02:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/21 "2016-10-27T23:52:09Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Nitpick: isn’t the original spelling Adetokunbo, with an n rather than an m? That explains the “n” in the Greek version, before the “mp” which is the equivalent of “b” - as anyone who has studied a Corona bottle will know, “mpira” (μπύρα) is beer. I don’t know the original spelling, I back-formed it, surmising that it went through the Greek standardization and then back to Roman alphabet. But what I said would work if that were the original Nigerian spelling. The N before the MP is a mystery, maybe they couldn’t put two Ms back to back that way. But -mbo is a common ending in Nigerian names. In any case, the guy is a valid answer to the OPs question, of a person in recent times whose name got respelled . ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/22 "2016-10-28T00:07:08Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > Random Googling turned up [Colegio Jorge Washington](http://www.cojowa.edu.co/), an American international school in Cartagena, Colombia. Founded in 1952, and – yep – named after our first President 🆒 > > And this [1873 book about United States history, written in Spanish](https://books.google.com/books?id=HyZMAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PR6&lpg=RA1-PR6&dq=%22Juan+Adams%22,+presidente&source=bl&ots=d1KCpzArP_&sig=PiyhHDoJyI3zIDBdaXo8bkqSIMk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUhbWs5vvPAhUJfiYKHVZfDAUQ6AEIQDAL#v=onepage&q=%22Juan%20Adams%22%2C%20presidente&f=false), refers to “Juan Adams”, “Juan Marshall”, “Jacobo Madison” (not Jaime or Diego?), “Enrique Clay”, “Jorge Clinton” (the former VP, not the musician :D), etc. Spanish has a much greater tendency to translate names than English does. English formerly had a greater tendency to translate names than it does now. My favorite example is the [Catholic Monarchs of Spain](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reyes_Cat%C3%B3licos), known in Spanish as Fernando and Isabel. In English they are known as Ferdinand and Isabella. To be consistent, it should probably be Ferdinand and Elizabeth in English. Elizabeth I of England is known as [Isabel I](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_I_de_Inglaterra) in Spanish. Even Elizabeth II is known as [Isabel II.](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_II_del_Reino_Unido) [Juan Carlos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos_I_of_Spain) of Spain is always known by that name in English; he is never called John Charles. However, Elizabeth I’s contemporary Felipe II is generally known as[Philip II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_II_of_Spain) in English. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/23 "2016-10-28T14:10:02Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > In any case, the guy is a valid answer to the OPs question, of a person in recent times whose name got respelled . Not merely “respelled” or “transliterated” … but “translated”. **Respelled/transliterated** : English \*John \*to French _Djanne_, Italian _Gian_, Spanish (very roughly) _Chan_ (Nonexistent spellings of “John” to make a point, except I think _Gian_ is out there in the wild) **Translated** : English \*John \*to French _Jean_, Italian _Giovanni_, Spanish _Juan_ ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/24 "2016-10-28T14:17:33Z")
So, I checked and sure enough, the history books I read in the eighties say “Jorge Washington” and “Benjamín Franklin” (with a tilde). However they are reprints of books originally published in the sixties. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/25 "2016-10-28T14:22:08Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The most recent historical persons? If by historical you mean dead, JPII. Nah, not necessarily “dead”. I just meant prominent persons with international fame. It’s looking like one of the answers to the OP is, in fact, Queen Elizabeth II. I had assumed, upon typing the OP, that the practice of translating names had largely ended ~1700-1800. What inspired the OP directly was looking at various articles about the 16th-century John Calvin (aka _Jean Cauvin_, _Juan Calvino_, _Johannes Calvin_, etc.). I got to wondering we call John Calvin … that … and we don’t call the 20th-century oceanographer “James Cousteau”. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/26 "2016-10-28T14:25:39Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Who, except for chronic misspellers, is calling him “Ghandi”? Even Google Chrome recognizes that as a misspelling. Hilariously enough, Nehru’s son-in-law (Indira’s husband) was a Parsi named Feroz Ghandy, he changed his name to “Gandhi” to (I would assume) try to associate himself with Gandhi’s legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/27 "2016-10-28T14:33:48Z")
Thank you. I did not know that. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/28 "2016-10-28T14:34:34Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Even Elizabeth II is known as [Isabel II.](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabel_II_del_Reino_Unido) I found these interesting, as well: [Carlos, príncipe de Gales](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_de_Gales) [Príncipe Guillermo, duque de Cambridge](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillermo_de_Cambridge) [Catalina, duquesa de Cambridge](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_de_Cambridge) [Príncipe Enrique de Gales](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_de_Gales) Will and Kate’s kids are even _Príncipe Jorge de Cambridge y Princesa Carlota de Cambridge_ … at least on Wikipedia _español_. At least for the British Royal Family, Portugese Wikipedia seems to translate the names much like the Spanish site. Italian and French Wikipedia keep the English names. And [Latvian Wikipedia](https://lv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princis_Viljams,_Kembrid%C5%BEas_hercogs), as \*\*Colophon \*\*pointed out, does _respell_ all the Royal Family names but does so in a way that at least approximates the original English approximation. Not translation, but interesting all the same. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/29 "2016-10-28T14:49:34Z")
Seems like with at least Spanish (and Portuguese?), [translating the names](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felipe_de_B%C3%A9lgica) [of European monarchy](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_XVI_Gustavo_de_Suecia) is simply tradition. [French](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_XVI_Gustave) and [Italian](https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlo_XVI_Gustavo_di_Svezia) sometimes does it, as well. This doesn’t seem to extend to non-monarchy European leaders, though – Belgian prime minister Charles Michel is never _Carlos Michel_. Polish president Andrzej Duda is never _Andres Duda_. And so on. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/30 "2016-10-28T16:59:21Z")
How would something like “Mother Teresa” qualify? Obviously, the original Portuguese or Hindu word was not “Mother”. I must confess that I don’t know if she actually qualified for the title “Mother” or even if she could. (Although some leaders of a herd of nuns are known as “Mother Superior”) Teresa is obviously(?) the original Portuguese. It follows the reverse pattern like some Euro-royalty, where the name is translated but not the title - “Tsar Nicholas”. it’s more like “Chairman Mao”. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/31 "2016-10-28T17:16:01Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Who, except for chronic misspellers, is calling him “Ghandi”? Even Google Chrome recognizes that as a misspelling. (Off topic) In grad school I took a semiconductor physics class from an [SK Ghandi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorab_K._Ghandhi). Heaven help the poor student who accidentally spelled his name “Gandhi” - retribution was swift and merciless… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/32 "2016-10-28T17:31:55Z")
> [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](#): > > (Off topic) In grad school I took a semiconductor physics class from an [SK Ghandi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorab_K._Ghandhi). Heaven help the poor student who accidentally spelled his name “Gandhi” - retribution was swift and merciless… Hmm, I guess it was just leaving out the _first_ h of SK Ghandhi’s name that led to swift and merciless retribution? He was totally relaxed about the second one, saw it as pretty much optional among his close friends? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/33 "2016-10-28T17:41:10Z")
Proper names should not be translated. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/34 "2016-10-28T17:48:52Z")
Maybe Qaddafi/Gadhafi/Gaddafi/Qadhafi ? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/35 "2016-10-28T17:54:56Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Proper names should not be translated. Doesn’t really seem to be a matter of “should” or “should not”, but rather a matter of tradition and custom for some speech communities at various times (even up to the present). See posts #14, #24, and #28 above. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/36 "2016-10-28T17:59:22Z")
> [@Uniqueorn](#): > > Maybe Qaddafi/Gadhafi/Gaddafi/Qadhafi ? Transliteration between Arabic and Roman alphabet with that one, not translation. If English-language media referred to the former Libyan leader as _Muammar Bowman_ or _Muammar Archer_, then it would be more in line with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/37 "2016-10-28T18:40:20Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > How would something like “Mother Teresa” qualify? Many European languages refer to her as various translations of “Teresa of Calcutta” or “Mother Teresa of Calcutta” (e.g. Spanish _(Madre) Teresa de Calcuta_, similarly in Italian and Portuguese). In French, she is _Mère Teresa_ (keeping \*Teresa \*instead of _Thérèse_). In Hungarian, she was _Teréz anya_ before canonization, and is now _Kalkuttai Szent Teréz_. Hungarian is one of the apparently few languages that does translate “Teresa”. ---
**Author:** ![JacobSwan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a6a055/32.png) [@JacobSwan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JacobSwan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/38 "2016-10-28T21:27:56Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On the other hand, Americans would probably refer to the Prime Minister of the Czech Republic as “Mr. Sobotka”, even though Czech doesn’t use that title (according to Google, the equivalent is “Pan”). I have to wonder if maybe the -ová ending is analogous. The -ova ending is a feminine form and the Czechs have a habit of adding it to all foreign female surnames. J K Rowlingova always makes me smile when I see it on posters. (rolling over) It used to be compulsory for all women to take the feminine form of their husbands surname upon marriage. That rule was relaxed only a few years ago and it’s now optional. But you can’t change your mind later and any female children you have must be named the same way. i.e. if you choose -ova they will have it too, if you just take your husbands name as it is, your daughters will be the same. We have a newsreader who doesn’t use the feminine form of her married name, yet still pronounces all foreign names with the -ova. She gets a lot of flak from people over it on both sides of the feminist divide. Google is right, Pan is the equivalent of Mr, I can see it on my electric bill from here, right next to the two street numbers for my apartment. The surnames I can understand, the dual house numbering is still a bit strange to me, ---
**Author:** ![Premislaus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f0a364/32.png) [@Premislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Premislaus)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2016, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/39 "2016-10-28T21:48:21Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > OK. So the General Question is: **Who were among the most recent historical persons to still have their names auto-translated in this way?** Looking at Wikipedia articles in various languages – so long as the language uses the Roman alphabet, “George Washington” will always be “George Washington”. He’s not known in Italy as _Giorgio Washington_, or _Jorge Washington_ in Spain. That’s probably just the Wikipedia editing standards. George Washington is, in fact, known is Poland mostly as _Jerzy Waszyngton_. There really seems to be no rule about this sort of things as (e.g.) Thomas Jefferson or John Adams are known under their original name. As an even weirder example, The UK’s Prince Charles’s name is translated as “Karol” while Princes William and Harry’s name are never translated. Oh, and the reigning monarch’s names are usually translated, but for some reason Juan Carlos of Spain was an exception. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865/40 "2016-10-29T08:13:39Z")
I see there is no complete answer yet… how many names does the OP need ? 200 million ?? 🙂 Many peoples names are autotranslated even when they are written in original, or close enough (russian to latin?), alphabet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-recent-historical-person-s-to-have-their-name-routinely-translated-when-referenced/769865.md?page=3)