# Most Revolutionary TV series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [August 18, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839 "2019-08-18T14:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/1 "2019-08-18T14:52:16Z")
Looking for those shows that basically broke all the rules, turned the tropes on their heads, and made it so that, from here on, nothing was the same. Discuss, and I’ll be back with my entrant. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/2 "2019-08-18T15:09:32Z")
Pushing Daisies. It was sweet, quirky, unique and doomed to only 1 1/2 seasons thanks to the 2007 writers’ strike. I still miss it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/3 "2019-08-18T15:10:14Z")
_All in the Family_ – Moved away from the genteel middle class sitcom _Hill Street Blues_ – introduced story arcs to non-soap-opera TV. They were usually about four episodes, but the idea of a continuing story was a big change. It was expanded on by _Babylon 5_, with a full-series arc, and later _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, which cut it into the one-season form that’s common today. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/4 "2019-08-18T15:14:10Z")
_Babylon 5_ was the first series to go into production with an ending already planned out–threats of cancellation required that the series be twisted around a bit in order to give a proper ending to the show before its planned finale. Network people were flummoxed to be dealing with a show whose writer had already planned how to put himself out of work before the network could do it for him. Took a while, but series tv now often comes with an exit strategy and a defined end point. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/5 "2019-08-18T15:24:29Z")
_Married… With Children_ did wonders to take us away from the sappy family sit-coms of the 80s ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/6 "2019-08-18T15:26:35Z")
_The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis_. First show to portray a less-than-perfect family. The son goofed off in school, ducked work, and did nothing but chase girls. The father had a real job as a store owner and had to work all the time. Instead of a wonderful relationship with his son, he kept muttering “I gotta kill that boy.” The best friend was a beatnik who liked actual jazz. From the second season on, the regular girl was brainy. Teachers were worshiped and so underpaid they went on strike. It debuted in 1959 but was a time traveler from the late 60s. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/7 "2019-08-18T15:32:16Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > _Hill Street Blues_ – introduced story arcs to non-soap-opera TV. They were usually about four episodes, but the idea of a continuing story was a big change. It was expanded on by _Babylon 5_, with a full-series arc, and later _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, which cut it into the one-season form that’s common today. And you hit all three that immediately came to my mind. _Hill Street Blues_ also pioneered the use of over-lapping dialog. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/8 "2019-08-18T15:56:58Z")
From a business standpoint, I might offer Star Trek: The Next Generation. ST:TNG was a big-budget show that elected to forgo network processes and go into first run syndication to maintain control over its production standards. That’s a bold move. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/9 "2019-08-18T16:13:09Z")
The Larry Sanders Show pioneered the “behind the scenes” type show and really changed how characters were written on sitcom. “Nobody is always stupid/bad, nobody is always smart/good” was a guiding principle. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/10 "2019-08-18T16:15:03Z")
How about Twin Peaks. They basically turned each episode into a movie. This concept was expanded on greatly by other shows like Six Feet Under, Sopranos and Breaking Bad. ---
**Author:** ![GESancMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gesancman/32/2923_2.png) [@GESancMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GESancMan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/11 "2019-08-18T16:15:46Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > _Married… With Children_ did wonders to take us away from the sappy family sit-coms of the 80s As did _Roseanne_. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/12 "2019-08-18T16:42:46Z")
Great choices here. But the observation of SmartAleq aside, Babylon 5 was _not_ the first series to start with the end already planned. Nor were Pushing Daisies or Twin Peaks the first quirky shows. Both those attributes were shared by a series from back in the late sixties. I would nominate a show that had only 17 episodes (much longer seasons were the thing back then), was so planned from the beginning and was so quirky that it inspired many a WTF before WTF was even a thing. Specifically, I’m talking about “The Prisoner”. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/13 "2019-08-18T16:46:03Z")
We’ve been watching Seinfeld reruns, but I think Dobie Gillis wins. Even as a little kid, I LOVED the show, and it felt like something new\*. The breaking the fourth wall, the characters, the family and school situations, and the fact that the G. stood for Walter. \*I expected a slew of “new” shows that were like this, but it seemed to be a one-off. We got something fresh, then it was back to regular sitcom fare. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/14 "2019-08-18T17:07:47Z")
_ **Sea Hunt** _ (1958–1961) was a first-run syndication series that reached No. 1 in the ratings. It was rejected by the major networks who thought a series filmed underwater could not be sustained. _ **The Untouchables** _ (1959–1963) was an unusually violent show for its time (though nary a drop of blood was seen). It was also criticized for its “surprisingly frank depictions of drug abuse and prostitution.” It had a _film noir_ period feel that was reinforced by Walter Winchell’s narration. _ **Star Trek** _ (1966–1969) was an adult science fiction series more or less grounded in reality (in contrast to shows like _ **Lost in Space** _). It had a continuing cast and a permanent locale (the _Enterprise_), unlike anthologies such as _ **The Twilight Zone** _ and _ **The Outer Limits** _. Its stories were often allegories used to explore contemporary social issues. _ **Crime Story** _ (1986–1988) was a Cops vs Mobsters series based on actual events. It had a serialized format with stories that spanned an entire season. It was also incredibly violent, and the Good Guys didn’t always win in the end. _ **The Sopranos** _ (1999–2007) was a Mafia-based soap opera about the family life of mobsters. Its depiction of crime and violence was far more realistic than on earlier shows. The characters were about as low as could be, but you could usually empathize with them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/15 "2019-08-18T17:08:53Z")
**Batman** — which Wiki says took up two Top 10 spots of the Nielsens — was enjoyed unironically by kids while adults enjoyed it ironically, sparking Emmy nominations for “the only situation comedy on the air without a laugh track.” A quick look at TV Tropes cites the famous quote that, when people try to explain ‘campiness’, the best they can often do is “sort of like the Batman TV show.” You know: absurdity played absolutely straight, even as it gets stagey to the point of leaning on the fourth wall, exaggerated and artificial and zany but still _earnest_; and audiences said, Produce A Big-Screen Movie Version, Right Now! ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/16 "2019-08-18T17:18:03Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > _All in the Family_ – Moved away from the genteel middle class sitcom > > _Hill Street Blues_ – introduced story arcs to non-soap-opera TV… Of course, All In The Family was the US version of [Til Death Us Do Part](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Death_Us_Do_Part) - so credit where credit’s due. Absolutely agree with Hill Street Blues. I occasionally muse about how difficult it would be to explain to a young person just what an effect it had. That young person would say, _But it’s just like every other cop show?_ Nope - more like, every other cop show is just like it. j ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/17 "2019-08-18T17:30:37Z")
**Monty Python’s Flying Circus**. “And now for something completely different.” ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/18 "2019-08-18T17:34:10Z")
[QUOTE=terentii;21812378 _ **Star Trek** _ (1966–1969) was an adult science fiction series more or less grounded in reality (in contrast to shows like _ **Lost in Space** _). It had a continuing cast and a permanent locale (the _Enterprise_), unlike anthologies such as _ **The Twilight Zone** _ and _ **The Outer Limits** _. Its stories were often allegories used to explore contemporary social issues. .[/QUOTE] I was coming in to say **Star Trek** , too, but there was another non-anthology “adult” science fiction series that preceded it : **Men Into Space** was “hard” sf – it all took place in the solar system, with rockets and space stations, but no faster than light drive, time travel, or aliens. It was not written for kids, but portrayed astronautics in about the 1970s-80s as it was imagined in 1959. I recall watching the series as a kid, but I don’t recall it ever being syndicated in the US, run o cable, or on VHS. It’s now available on DVD. For years it was practically impossible to find information about the show. Books on TV and TV SF pretty much ignored it, or mentioned it only in passing. It wasn’t until the dawn of the internet that I even saw an episode listing. > **[Men into Space](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_into_Space)** > > Men Into Space (a.k.a. Space Challenge in later US syndication) is an American black-and-white science fiction television series, produced by Ziv Television Programs, Inc., that was first broadcast by CBS from September 30, 1959, to September 7, 1960. The series depicts future efforts by the United States Air Force to explore and develop outer space. The series' star, William Lundigan, played Col. Edward McCauley. > Men Into Space was not set in a specified time period, but clues dropped in the... ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/19 "2019-08-18T17:35:18Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#): > > Of course, All In The Family was the US version of [Til Death Us Do Part](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Till_Death_Us_Do_Part) - so credit where credit’s due. > > Absolutely agree with Hill Street Blues. I occasionally muse about how difficult it would be to explain to a young person just what an effect it had. That young person would say, _But it’s just like every other cop show?_ Nope - more like, every other cop show is just like it. > > j I’ve seen “Til Death Us Do Part”, “All in the Family” was inspired by it but completely eclipsed it. **That Girl** followed by **The Mary Tyler Moore show** were big steps forward at the time in the portrayal of women. Way more for MTM but That Girl made a fair contribution also. I absolutely agree **Star Trek** & **The Sopranos** made for big changes. \*\*Roots \*\*shouldn’t be overlooked. I’m not sure anything compares to the impact of this mini-series. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/20 "2019-08-18T17:36:01Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Great choices here. But the observation of SmartAleq aside, Babylon 5 was _not_ the first series to start with the end already planned. Nor were Pushing Daisies or Twin Peaks the first quirky shows. Both those attributes were shared by a series from back in the late sixties. I would nominate a show that had only 17 episodes (much longer seasons were the thing back then), was so planned from the beginning and was so quirky that it inspired many a WTF before WTF was even a thing. Specifically, I’m talking about “The Prisoner”. No. McGoohan was winging it; there was no arc other than the two-parter at the end. The shows were standard “back to square one” endings and nothing carried over until the last two. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839.md?page=2)