# Most Revolutionary TV series **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [August 18, 2019, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839 "2019-08-18T14:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![MarvinKitFox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@MarvinKitFox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarvinKitFox)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/121 "2019-08-21T07:02:29Z")
I have to vote for DALLAS The sheer guts it took to declare a WHOLE SEASON of the series as a dream of one of the characters in the series, and rewind reality… It just boggles the mind that they got away with that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/122 "2019-08-21T08:08:48Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > _The McLaughlin Group._ First of the political talk shows where conservatives and liberals shouted at one another. Obviously, _60 Minutes’_ Point/Counterpoint was the inspiration, but I think McLaughlin was the first to build the whole show around the gimmick. Wasn’t this a continuation of **Agronsky and Company** , after Agronsky retired or died? (It’s possible that **Agrosky** was local to the DC area…) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/123 "2019-08-21T09:10:51Z")
> [@Jeff\_Lichtman](#): > > _Survivor_ was the first reality show of its type, and many more came not long after it debuted in 1997. Summer of 2000. MTV’s The Real World had already been on the air for years, and its spinoff show (now called “The Challenge”) started in 1998. They’re both the same kind of reality contest show where people get voted off, but I think I agree with you and would credit Survivor as the revolutionary show despite it debuting 2 years later. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/124 "2019-08-21T09:31:02Z")
I wonder if **The Price Is Right** deserves mention. There had been game shows with commercials and even product placement before, of course; but, here, that pretty much _was_ the show, right? It wasn’t really a trivia contest; they’d just see a TV or a barbecue grill, described lovingly by a pitchman, and be asked what it’d sell for, and — no, you’ve all overbid: you can buy it for _less_ than you’d think! And now see leggy blondes standing next to a SHINY NEW CAR! Hear the audience cheer! Do you want this car? I’ll _give_ you this car, if you’ll tell me what it’s worth to people! Oh? Congratulations! At the end of the hour, you can bid on a tourist-town hotel stay; but, first: a commercial break! The whole _thing_ was a commercial break! The title was a sales pitch! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/125 "2019-08-21T12:43:50Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I wonder if **The Price Is Right** deserves mention. There had been game shows with commercials and even product placement before, of course; but, here, that pretty much _was_ the show, right? > > It wasn’t really a trivia contest; they’d just see a TV or a barbecue grill, described lovingly by a pitchman, and be asked what it’d sell for, and — no, you’ve all overbid: you can buy it for _less_ than you’d think! And now see leggy blondes standing next to a SHINY NEW CAR! Hear the audience cheer! Do you want this car? I’ll _give_ you this car, if you’ll tell me what it’s worth to people! Oh? Congratulations! At the end of the hour, you can bid on a tourist-town hotel stay; but, first: a commercial break! > > The whole _thing_ was a commercial break! The title was a sales pitch! I’d say _ **Let’s Make a Deal** _ was at least as memorable, though I don’t think it spawned any imitators. Thanks to it, though, we now have the Monty Hall approach to choosing between alternatives. Surely \*\*\*Jeopardy! \*\*\*and _ **Wheel of Fortune** _ also deserve mention. The former turned the quiz show format on its head by giving the answer first, instead of the question. The latter is just a glorified version of Hangman. Yet they’re two of the most popular and enduring game shows ever. There used to be a website called TV4U that had really, \*really \*old shows on it. Watching _ **20 Questions** _ from 1949, I was amazed at how simple and slow-paced it was. We’ve come a long way, baby, where game shows are concerned! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/126 "2019-08-21T13:02:18Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I agree that **The Prisoner** has a rational progression and you can clearly see Number 6 gradually taking the upper hand. So, it only makes sense if you watch the episodes in a particular order? Does that make this the TV version of “Machete Order” for the Star Wars movies? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/127 "2019-08-21T14:01:35Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > So, it only makes sense if you watch the episodes in a particular order? Does that make this the TV version of “Machete Order” for the Star Wars movies? In some defense of this view, the order the episodes were made isn’t the same as the broadcast order. On the other hand, I’m not sure if the production order agrees with the “makes more sense” order. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/128 "2019-08-21T15:02:35Z")
Another series that bears mentioning is “The Fugitive” (original obviously). Not only did it make the statement that the American criminal justice system, gasp, wasn’t perfect, but it had a character that the audience was supposed to not like: The network execs went to the producer and said: “You should drop this Lt. Gerard character. He doesn’t test well with the audience.” Producer: “That’s the whole point.” They also thought that having a different setting and having your lead use a different name every week would confuse the audience. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/129 "2019-08-21T15:10:27Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Surely \*\*\*Jeopardy! \*\*\*and _ **Wheel of Fortune** _ also deserve mention. The former turned the quiz show format on its head by giving the answer first, instead of the question. Another show that did this but in a somewhat different way was \*\*\*Split Second \*\*\*with Tom Kennedy, which I loved. It moved so fast, the tension built right up until the end of the final round. (A later iteration with Monty Hall was nowhere near as fast-paced.) I remember one episode in particular. Two contestants were tied going into the final round; one was a graduate student majoring in Russian at UCLA. She rang in immediately on what turned out to be the final set of answers: \*Party newspaper Government newspaper News agency \* She nailed the game for the fifth day in a row with _Pravda_, _Izvestiya_, and _TASS_, and got to pick out her own brand new car! When asked once what her favorite game shows were, Carol Burnett said _ **Jeopardy!** _ and _ **Split Second** _. “Those people are so _smart_!” ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/130 "2019-08-21T15:10:54Z")
> [@MarvinKitFox](#): > > I have to vote for DALLAS > > The sheer guts it took to declare a WHOLE SEASON of the series as a dream of one of the characters in the series, and rewind reality… It just boggles the mind that they got away with that. You misspelled “desperation.” Patrick Duffy leaving the show caused the ratings to swan-dive off the World Trade Center. It took Larry Hagman to personally plea with Duffy to get him to come back to the show…a ticklish idea, seeing as his character was “dead and buried.” The producers had no choice but to go for broke and hit The Reset Button. :dubious: As for the audience letting them get away with it…that brings to mind a H.L. Mencken quote…😉 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/131 "2019-08-21T15:14:41Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Surely \*\*\*Jeopardy! \*\*\*and _ **Wheel of Fortune** _ also deserve mention. The former turned the quiz show format on its head by giving the answer first, instead of the question. They don’t really give the answer first, they just phrase the questions awkwardly. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/132 "2019-08-21T16:50:27Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > Twin Peaks, Hill Street Blues, and Babylon 5 were good shows but they didn’t change the landscape like I Love Lucy did. I don’t know… Babylon 5 wasn’t terribly popular, but it was different in that not only was the end planned ahead of time, but the middle was too. Each season had a distinct story arc that the episodes were part of. The first season was more episodic, in that it was basically doing stage-setting with the station, the aliens, and the general show universe. But starting with the second season, the show was more or less on story-arc rails. This gave it a much more “modern” feel (by our perspective today), in that there weren’t throwaway episodes- every one was to a greater or lesser extent, part of the larger story that Straczynski was trying to tell. You couldn’t come in during the third season and have a clue what was going on- you had to have seen the earlier seasons to have the backstory. That was extremely unusual at the time, but is more commonplace today, likely in no small part because of B5’s pioneering. Prior to B5, most story-arc shows were miniseries like “V”, and regular season shows had short 3-4 episode arcs. In that sense, B5 was much more like “Breaking Bad” or other modern shows that have a specific story to tell in a specific number of seasons. ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/133 "2019-08-21T19:25:51Z")
I can’t believe no one has mentioned “Lost”. It was the first series to kill off main characters in the first season. I remember how shocking it was when Shannon was shot. Now it’s commonplace for most main characters to not have “plot armor”. A death can still be shocking within the story (i.e. Ned Stark) but not unexpected. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/134 "2019-08-21T21:10:58Z")
Agreed. “Lost” broke the mold in a lot of ways (not all of them good). The budget for the pilot was outrageous and, I hear, got some people fired. At least temporarily until ABC realized that they had a (smoke) monster hit. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/135 "2019-08-21T21:19:56Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I can’t believe no one has mentioned “Lost”. It was the first series to kill off main characters in the first season. I remember how shocking it was when Shannon was shot. Now it’s commonplace for most main characters to not have “plot armor”. A death can still be shocking within the story (i.e. Ned Stark) but not unexpected. I wouldn’t say “Lost” is unique in that- plenty of shows pre-2004 have killed off main characters- the Sopranos, Babylon 5, hell, even NCIS killed off main characters prior to Lost being on the air. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/136 "2019-08-21T21:43:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I wouldn’t say “Lost” is unique in that- plenty of shows pre-2004 have killed off main characters- the Sopranos, Babylon 5, hell, even NCIS killed off main characters prior to Lost being on the air. Long before that MASH did it to perfection with Col Blake. There are many other examples over the years. All in the Family a few years later did a great job with Edith passing away. All Lost added was doing it in the first season. Buffy’s first episode set up a character that appeared like he was going to be a regular and then towards the episode killed him. Not the same, but well played at least. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/137 "2019-08-22T04:29:26Z")
The A-Team. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/138 "2019-08-22T23:18:48Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > _All in the Family_ – Moved away from the genteel middle class sitcom > > _Hill Street Blues_ – introduced story arcs to non-soap-opera TV. They were usually about four episodes, but the idea of a continuing story was a big change. It was expanded on by _Babylon 5_, with a full-series arc, and later _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_, which cut it into the one-season form that’s common today. Really? Kung Fu (1972) was a big story arc, and sooner or later he’d find his half-brother. And nobody knew if/how the Fugitive (1963) would catch up to the one-armed man? –G! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/139 "2019-08-22T23:22:35Z")
More for one that merely got mentioned: just imagine pitching a primetime sitcom about a working-class guy — hates his job about as much as he loves bowling after hours, bickers a little with his wife and hangs out a lot with his pal, enjoys golf and cigarettes — only (a) it’s a cartoon; and (b) they’re stone-age cavemen. No, there’s still baseball games and movie stars; I’m just saying there are saber-tooth tigers as well as Vegas casinos. Like, the guy maybe winds up pulling jury duty; but, y’know, there’s also a mammoth, or something. Really. _Really._ During the Eisenhower administration, pitch **The Flintstones**. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2019, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839/140 "2019-08-22T23:31:46Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > More for one that merely got mentioned: just imagine pitching a primetime sitcom about a working-class guy — hates his job about as much as he loves bowling after hours, bickers a little with his wife and hangs out a lot with his pal, enjoys golf and cigarettes — only (a) it’s a cartoon; and (b) they’re stone-age cavemen. No, there’s still baseball games and movie stars; I’m just saying there are saber-tooth tigers as well as Vegas casinos. Like, the guy maybe winds up pulling jury duty; but, y’know, there’s also a mammoth, or something. > > Really. _Really._ During the Eisenhower administration, pitch **The Flintstones**. I don’t know, it has always been acknowledged that is was pretty much “The Honeymooners as cavemen”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-revolutionary-tv-series/838839.md?page=8)