# Most Ripped Off at Oscar Time **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [September 8, 2000, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505 "2000-09-08T15:51:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Atreyu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@Atreyu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atreyu)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/81 "2000-09-15T07:25:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Connor \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Shy Ghost \* > > …I think it was Kevin Spacey who got it that year for **The Usual Suspects** , which is a fine movie, but nothing about Spacey’s performance really stood out for me. > > > > \*\* > > Er…what?!? \*\* Don’t get me wrong. I’m a big, big fan of Kevin Spacey. But I was much more impressed with his work in **Seven** , **L.A. Confidential** , and **American Beauty**. Spacey was good in **Usual Suspects** , but I’m still on the fence on whether or not it was enough to have warranted him getting the Academy Award for it. I hear that he’s going to be in the movie adaptation of **The Shipping News**. If that’s accurate (and the Internet Movie Database does list it as one of his upcoming projects), then I’m already looking forward to seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/82 "2000-09-15T14:52:25Z")
Having watched **Rushmore** again on cable last night, I am astonished that it didn’t receive a Best Picture nomination. What a great movie. You can watch it again and again and catch funny little things you missed on first viewing. **Bill Murray** should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actor for his role in that film, as well. ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/83 "2000-09-15T17:42:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Needs2know \* > \*\*Damn Joe…you’re better than a great big dose of Ginko Biloba! > > Needs \*\* Why, thank you. I just love great character actors. ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/84 "2000-09-15T17:48:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*Having watched **Rushmore** again on cable last night, I am astonished that it didn’t receive a Best Picture nomination. What a great movie. You can watch it again and again and catch funny little things you missed on first viewing. > > **Bill Murray** should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actor for his role in that film, as well. \*\* I’ll disagree with you on the Best Picture nomination (I just think the movie is a little confused about it’s focus), but I will agree with you on Bill Murray, and add his performances in “Wild Things” as the worlds most cheerfully sleeze-ball lawyer, and “Ed Wood,” where he manages to tell the oddest road story to George “The Animal” Steele which ends up with Murray introducting the smiling mariachi band behind him as the guys who saved his life. Priceless scene, and Murray delivers it like a dead-center fastball for a strike. On the other hand, I greatly enjoyed the performance of Sara Tanaka, who plays the fellow student and love interest in “Rushmore,” and I hope she gets some more work soon. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/85 "2000-09-15T20:20:11Z")
I dunno. I didn’t think **Rushmore** was unfocused. It was a character study and a coming-of-age film. (Now, granted, the leading _character_ was unfocused, but that was the _point_.) What do you mean by unfocused? Do you mean that it didn’t have a single unifying message? I’ll wait for your reply, but I can think of a couple of major themes. The bigger obstacle for **Rushmore** was the level of competition in 1998. The Best Picture nominees for that year: “Elizabeth,” “Life Is Beautiful,” “Saving Private Ryan,” “Shakespeare in Love,” and “The Thin Red Line.” Tough to break into that group, but I would have chosen **Rushmore** easily over **The Thin Red Line**. (And by the way, talk about _unfocused_…) Do you disagree? Murray was just plain robbed. ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/86 "2000-09-15T20:41:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spoke- \* > \*\*I dunno. I didn’t think **Rushmore** was unfocused. It was a character study and a coming-of-age film. (Now, granted, the leading _character_ was unfocused, but that was the _point_.) > > What do you mean by unfocused? Do you mean that it didn’t have a single unifying message? I’ll wait for your reply, but I can think of a couple of major themes. > > The bigger obstacle for **Rushmore** was the level of competition in 1998. The Best Picture nominees for that year: “Elizabeth,” “Life Is Beautiful,” “Saving Private Ryan,” “Shakespeare in Love,” and “The Thin Red Line.” > > Tough to break into that group, but I would have chosen **Rushmore** easily over **The Thin Red Line**. (And by the way, talk about _unfocused_…) Do you disagree? > > Murray was just plain robbed. \*\* I simply felt that the film meandered a little too much for it’s own good. There were great elements to the movie, but it seemed like there were too many elements vieing for equal screen time, that Anderson and Wilson simply could not decide on. Perhaps a re-editing job would solve that problem. I agree that were major themes, but I think there were too many elements to the themes that were never really brought into focus. That being said, I love a lot of the movie. The barbershop father is wunderbar, Olivia Williams is great, I love the play at the end and I found the actor playing the Scottish kid hilarious and strangely touching (note the scene where he finally gets in the play). And yes, I do agree with you on The Thin Red Line. Too many lead roles inhabited by too many fabulous lead actors. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/87 "2000-09-15T20:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PunditLisa \* > I also thought \*\* The Sixth Sense \*\* should have won over Shakespeare in Love. Should have won over American Beauty, which I agree with. Shakespeare in Love had no business being nominated, not to mention beating both Saving Private Ryan and Life is Beautiful. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/88 "2000-09-15T21:03:15Z")
**JosephFinn** wrote: > [@](#): > > That being said, I love a lot of [**Rushmore**]. The barbershop father is wunderbar, Olivia Williams is great, I love the play at the end and I found the actor playing the Scottish kid hilarious and strangely touching (note the scene where he finally gets in the play). See, this is another reason I love the film. Even the minor characters sparkle. I agree wholeheartedly that the barber dad and the Scottish kid are impressive. But so are most of the other minor characters, from the Dean of the school, to the Blume twins Ronny and Donny, to the baseball coach, _et cetera_. 1998 was a good year for the movies. I was looking at some of the other films that came out that year: “Pleasantville,” “Primary Colors” (which was also worthy of some Oscar consideration), “Central Station,” and “The Truman Show.” Still, I would pick “Rushmore” over all of those, and certainly over “The Thin Red Line.” ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2000, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/89 "2000-09-15T21:06:56Z")
nadin wrote: > [@](#): > > Dame Judi Dench in Mrs Brown. I mean that was criminal, even the woman who won it (forgotten who it was) said in her speech that she thought Judi Dench should have got it. Isn’t it obvious? The “Best Actress” Academy Award[TM] doesn’t actually go to the best actress, it goes to the best- **looking** actress. Sorta like when somebody says, “Oh, I just loved so-and-so’s performance in that movie, she’s _such_ a good actress!”, they really mean “Oh, I just loved that movie, because so-and-so looked _so_ good on the screen! And she can deliver lines, too – sometimes with what passes for real emotion!” Heck, box office draw is based on looks, why shouldn’t awards be? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/90 "2000-09-16T10:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\* > The “Best Actress” Academy Award[TM] doesn’t actually go to the best actress, it goes to the best- **looking** actress. \*\* Hilary Swank, Helen Hunt, Frances McDormand, Susan Sarandon, Jessica Lange, Holly Hunter, Emma Thompson, Jodie Foster, Kathy Bates, Jessica Tandy, Geraldine Page, Sally Field, Shirley MacLaine, Meryl Streep, Katharine Hepburn, Sissy Spacek, Jane Fonda, Diane Keaton, Faye Dunaway, Louise Fletcher, Ellen Burstyn, Glenda Jackson, Liza Minnelli, Maggie Smith, on and on and on… Really? All these women only won the Best Actress award because they were all “better looking” than the other nominees and their acting had nothing to do with it? IMO, Paltrow might be better looking than Fernanda Montenegro (my choice to win) but she is not better looking than either Emily Watson or Cate Blanchett. Helen Hunt might be better looking than Judi Dench (my choice too) but she sure isn’t better looking than either Helena Bonham Carter or Kate Winslet. If your theory were true, Francis McDormand would have lost to either Emily Watson or Kristin Scott Thomas. Susan Sarandon would have lost to Sharon Stone. Jessica Lange would have lost to Susan Sarandon! Emma Thompson would have lost to Michelle Pfeiffer. Kathy Bates would certainly have lost to Julia Roberts. Jessica Tandy would have lost to Isabelle Adjanti (or Michelle Pfeiffer again). I may not always agree with the winners, but there is more to it than a beauty contest. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/91 "2000-09-16T11:14:58Z")
**Equipoise** you really enjoyed that didn’t you 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/92 "2000-09-16T11:20:28Z")
Not even nominated: Courtney Love for _The People vs. Larry Flynt_. Kate Bush’s song “This Woman’s Work” from _She’s Having A Baby_. Jim Carrey for either _The Truman Show_ or _Man On The Moon_. Terry Gilliam’s _Brazil_ for Best Picture and Best Director. Worst miscarriage of justice: The year the song “Calling You” from _Bagdad Cafe_ didn’t win. That’s not the problem. I’m thrilled it was nominated. The problem was that that year the songs weren’t sung or played (not even a snippet!), so no one watching got the chance to hear what an amazing song it is. Even worse, there were only 3 songs nominated that year, so it isn’t as if it would have taken up a lot of time. Then again, that was the year (1989) they needed the extra time for the Rob Lowe, Sleeping Beauty skit, and the “Kid-Of-Stars” production number! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/93 "2000-09-16T11:26:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\* **Equipoise** you really enjoyed that didn’t you 😃 \*\* Uh oh, am I not supposed to enjoy it? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/94 "2000-09-16T15:47:18Z")
Equipoise wrote: > [@](#): > > Really? All these women only won the Best Actress award because they were all “better looking” than the other nominees and their acting had nothing to do with it? Yep, every single one of 'em. 😉 Well, okay, maybe I was exaggerating juuuuuuuust a tad. I’m still bitter over the “actresses” chosen for most of the female roles in the modern _Star Trek_ serieses (e.g. Terry Farrel cannot act, she only knows how to stand there and look pretty), and I’m taking out my hostilities on the Academy Awards. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyHemlock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ba0ec/32.png) [@JoeyHemlock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyHemlock)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/95 "2000-09-16T23:07:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Connor \* > \*\* > [Sixth Sense] should have won over American Beauty, which I agree with. Shakespeare in Love had no business being nominated, not to mention beating both Saving Private Ryan and Life is Beautiful. \*\* Oh bullshit. Sixth Sense was a just-good movie with a twist ending that surprised people. That does not make it an oscar winner. It shouldn’t have even been nominated for anything, except maybe Osment’s supporting actor. American Beauty is twice the movie Sixth Sense is. It’s better in every way. While I would have prefered Life Is Beautiful or Elizabeth to win, Shakespeare in Love was a damn good movie and I don’t mind it winning. Okay, Gwenyth was a little too much, but it was clever writing and well acted all around. Saving Private Ryan was the best opening in movies in a long time followed by 2 hours of silly Hollywood melodrama. I knew how it was going to end about 15 minutes after the invasion scene. I’m sure I’ll be beat up for these statements by someone, but I guess that’s why I resisted posting to this thread for so long, because movies are such a personal thing and what’s good for one is not good for everyone… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2000, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/96 "2000-09-16T23:44:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\* > The thing that REALLY drives me nuts about the Oscars is, they keep rewarding gimmicky performances, rather than performances that require subtlety and nuance. > Anthony Hopkins was fine as Hannibal Lecter… but his performance as a repressed butler in “Remains of the Day” showed MUCH greater acting skill. He had to convey HIDDEN emotion, though only his eyes, or through very subtle facial expressions. > > Paul Newman was wonderful in “Nobody’s Fool,” a low-key movie that called for an understated performance. > > David Paymer was as brilliantly understated in “Mr. Saturday Night” as Billy Crystal was hammy. > > Al Pacino won his Oscar for his hammiest, most over-the-top performance. He DESERVED it for his brilliantly controlled performances as Michael Corleone in “The GOdfather” and “The GOdfather Part 2.” > > \*\* I absolutely agree with you, however, couple of things: Daniel Day-Lewis was FUCKING AMAZING in My Left Foot. Let’s see YOU so effectively and believably portray someone with cerebral palsy, and then put across the emotion and truth of the character besides. I sure couldn’t, and I actually consider myself a pretty decent actor. So that one I think was richly deserved and not one-note at all. And it was exciting to have Kevin Spacey recognized for his beautiful work in American Beauty this year. He ripped me up with his portrayal of an ordinary man. NOW…as to my vote for ripped-off: Val Kilmer in “Tombstone”. That performance was so incredible…I could just watch all his scenes on a loop. And I am no Kilmer fan as a rule. I know there have been many others over the years, but I can’t think of them right now. ---
**Author:** ![JosephFinn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JosephFinn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JosephFinn)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2000, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/97 "2000-09-17T04:00:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stoidela \* > \*\* > NOW…as to my vote for ripped-off: > > Val Kilmer in “Tombstone”. That performance was so incredible…I could just watch all his scenes on a loop. And I am no Kilmer fan as a rule. > > \*\* His performance was so good, it made me want to go have a physical to make sure I didn’t have consumption. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2000, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/98 "2000-09-17T04:14:52Z")
Tracer wrote: ## Shakespeare in Love was a damn good movie and I don’t mind it winning. Okay, Gwenyth was a little too much, but it was clever writing and well acted all around. Perhaps This film won on the strength of its writing and as “payback” for “Brazil” Which Tom Stoppard also co-wrote. Hollywood guilt? ---
**Author:** ![BarnStormer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5f8ce5/32.png) [@BarnStormer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnStormer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2000, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505/99 "2000-09-17T14:06:20Z")
I think Phil Silvers deserved an oscar for his work in It’s A Mad Mad Mad Mad World. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-ripped-off-at-oscar-time/32505.md?page=4)