# Most sexist musical act that's considered "great"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110 "2014-06-18T23:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/41 "2014-06-19T19:17:17Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > These are mostly pretty tame examples compared to the “Suck my cock” type lyrics in a lot of hard rock, in any case. But suck my cock lyrics aren’t inherently sexist. Wouldn’t it need something extra like “Suck my cock because you’re a woman and that’s your place, and get me a sammich when you’re done.” Lyrics by Lost4life Music© 2014 ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/42 "2014-06-19T19:32:54Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Start with [Lou Christie](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyRqdzF8swY) and [Gary Puckett](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f11onco_7YM) as a benchmark and then you can adjust for your own taste. I saw Gary Puckett open for the Monkees in 1986. If you found “Young Girl” creepy when it was sung by a 25 year old, you were going to need a Silkwood Shower when 45 year old Gary was singing it. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/43 "2014-06-19T19:37:22Z")
I gave up hope when people (women) argued that “You’re the hottest bitch in this place” was not a sexist lyric. Evidently some women love being called bitch by a guy, and want to be considered “the hottest bitch.” So basically no music is sexist. How about “Shush girl, shush your lips. Do the Hellen Keller and talk with your hips.” ---
**Author:** ![Hypno-Toad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b2d939/32.png) [@Hypno-Toad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypno-Toad)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/44 "2014-06-19T19:40:38Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Yes, the ZZ Top fellows are definitely sexually attracted to attractive women! Stone them! > > … wait … they’re already very stoned … guess somebody took care of that for us! Would you consider ZZ top videos to be sexist? You’re right about the songs really just saying, “I want to have sex.” But in at least one video, the band takes the “unattractive” girl and make her pretty by slutting her up. I think that could be considered sexist. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/45 "2014-06-19T19:41:31Z")
> [@74westy](#): > > I’d love to join the debate about whether normal male sexuality is inherently sexist but first I must express my amazement that we’ve gone 34 posts without mentioning [He Hit Me](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Hit_Me_%28It_Felt_Like_a_Kiss%29) [(It Felt Like a Kiss)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f20Oz9Yr_So&feature=kp) by the Crystals. AUGGH that was one of the songs on the compilation I made. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/46 "2014-06-19T19:44:04Z")
> [@lost4life](#): > > But suck my cock lyrics aren’t inherently sexist. Wouldn’t it need something extra like “Suck my cock because you’re a woman and that’s your place, and get me a sammich when you’re done.” Lyrics by Lost4life Music© 2014 Maybe it’s just me, YMMV and all that, but your added line seems to be the subtext to a lot of those songs to me - women exist as objects for the singer’s sexual/ego gratification. I don’t get any kind of sense there’s any respect involved. Especially with bands known for being neanderthals (Aerosmith, Motley Crue, etc.). ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/47 "2014-06-19T19:49:51Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I gave up hope when people (women) argued that “You’re the hottest bitch in this place” was not a sexist lyric. Evidently some women love being called bitch by a guy, and want to be considered “the hottest bitch.” > > So basically no music is sexist. Damn broads are too dumb to know when they’re being demeaned. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/48 "2014-06-19T19:51:37Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Would you consider ZZ top videos to be sexist? You’re right about the songs really just saying, “I want to have sex.” But in at least one video, the band takes the “unattractive” girl and make her pretty by slutting her up. I think that could be considered sexist. I would not consider them to be inherently sexist. I’m not familiar with the video you speak of. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/49 "2014-06-19T19:59:39Z")
To my mind there is a distinction to be made between “songs about wanting sex”, “songs about the singer’s unhappiness with a lover”, “songs that are creepy as hell”, and “sexist songs” - though of course the same song can be all four! 😃 To my ear, a prime example of a song that is “sexist” without any hints sexual aggression is Cat Stevens - Wild World. It is just incredibly paternalistic and patronizing - though it is obviously _intended_ to be sweet and sentimental. The chorus “I’ll always remember you like a child, girl” is both sexist and creepy as hell, when addressed to a presumably adult woman the singer has been sleeping with! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/50 "2014-06-19T20:20:49Z")
Yep, good example - reminds me of Stevie Wonder’s “Superwoman (Where Were You When I Needed You)”, which I’m sure he also meant as a love (lost) song, but comes across as sexist. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/51 "2014-06-19T23:41:29Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > I saw Gary Puckett open for the Monkees in 1986. If you found “Young Girl” creepy when it was sung by a 25 year old, you were going to need a Silkwood Shower when 45 year old Gary was singing it. You do realize, do you, that “Young Girl” does not depict the singer as having, or attempting to have sexual relations with a young girl? It depicts the singer attempting to discourage and dissuade a young girl (which presumably means a teenager, and not necessarily one under 18) from attempting to have sexual relations with him. _The Rolling Stones_’ “Stray Cat Blues”, on the other hand … ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/52 "2014-06-20T00:37:25Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > There are songs about male sexual pleasure - Crowded House’s “When You Come” is the first that springs to mind - that don’t treat the woman as an object that exists solely for the male’s pleasure, which is most definitely the case in many of the hard rock songs mentioned. Can you give me some lines that suggest that the women in those songs exist solely for the male’s pleasure? The song is about the male’s pleasure, since that is _what the song is about_. But what the hell makes you think the singer believes that is all the woman exists for? > [@](#): > > And if you don’t see why describing a woman performing oral sex on you as “plain” (much less as a dog) is sexist (hint: why would you feel the need to bring up her physical appearance at all, much less to disparage it?), I don’t know what to tell you. Ahhh, the old Harley riders comeback. "If I had to explain it, I wouldn’t be able to? Are you really so naive that you don’t understand that the attractiveness of a partner is an important part of human sexuality? Because if you did realise that, then you surely wouldn’t be asking why a song about fucking includes a physical description of the partner. You are coming across as a real misandyst prude here. That any man writing about what is important to his sexual experiences is immediately sexist if he doesn’t write about what is important to his partner as well. > [@](#): > > Then again, I shouldn’t be surprised some people are getting defensive about the topic - there’s always been a disturbing strain of sexism on these boards, or at the very least an adolescent male mindset regarding gender/sexual issues. Yes, because any man who says that he desires sex with a woman, and that her appearance enhances his sexual desire, must be deeply, deeply sexist. :rolleyes: Seriously, you are coming across like the biggest, misandist prude imaginable. You need to just accept that men like to fuck, and that men find a woman’s appearance to be an important part of their sexual desirability. Your idea that any man who admits to that is sexist is ridiculously juvenile. If a man admits that he only finds a woman attractive because of her physical appearance, I could see that as being sexist. But you are claiming that it’s sexist if a man admits he finds his partner attractive, or if he actually finds her desirable despite her \*not \*being a supermodal. Bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/53 "2014-06-20T00:45:04Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You do realize, do you, that “Young Girl” does not depict the singer as having, or attempting to have sexual relations with a young girl? It depicts the singer attempting to discourage and dissuade a young girl (which presumably means a teenager, and not necessarily one under 18) from attempting to have sexual relations with him. Not really. It depicts the singer as being in love with the girl, thinking about the young girl constantly and having almost irresistible urges to have sex with her. Urges which he is unable to fight if she is even in the same room with him. Hence the warning that she should leave before he changes his mind and fucks her. That’s a far cry from the singer unilaterally attempting to dissuade a young girl from having sex with him. “_You’re cute but I’m too old for you and you should find someone your own age_” is the sort of song you are describing. “_I love you, I can’t stop thinking about you sexually and if you don’t leave right now I am going to throw you on the floor and ravish you_” is what the actual song says. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/54 "2014-06-20T02:03:26Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > If you think it’s not sexist, I’d wonder the same about you. I can think of no instance in which I referred to my SO as “woman” where it wouldn’t sound condescending and piss her off. But maybe it’s an age thing - we’d both be grossed out by the term “lover”, as well. Yup, you don’t know what sexism is. I was right the first time. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/55 "2014-06-20T05:58:28Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Can you give me some lines that suggest that the women in those songs exist solely for the male’s pleasure? > > The song is about the male’s pleasure, since that is _what the song is about_. But what the hell makes you think the singer believes that is all the woman exists for? Here are a couple lines - in Kiss’s “I Want You”, “You can fight but not tonight/There’s nothing you can do/I Want you” doesn’t exactly seem like the woman has much agency. Motley Crue’s “Piece of Your Action” contains the line “Use you up, throw you away” and their “She Goes Down” has such gems as “For backstage pass, she goes down/With all of my friends, she goes down”, which doesn’t sound anywhere in the realm of “respecting another human being on a fundamental level” to my ears. And the fact that a song is about the male’s pleasure exclusively seems pretty sexist to me - if, in reality, you think sex is all about your pleasure, that’s pretty much the definition of a selfish asshole. > [@Blake](#): > > Ahhh, the old Harley riders comeback. "If I had to explain it, I wouldn’t be able to? > > Are you really so naive that you don’t understand that the attractiveness of a partner is an important part of human sexuality? Because if you did realise that, then you surely wouldn’t be asking why a song about fucking includes a physical description of the partner. Hilarious. The example is of a guy _disparaging the looks of the woman who’s blowing him_, and you not only bring up the most obvious point ever made about sexual attraction (which has nothing to do with the point), but then go on to claim “he actually finds her desirable despite her \*not \*being a supermodal [sic]”, as if he’s _being a gentleman_. In fact, it’s another textbook example of sexism: “She may be ugly, but she sucks a mean dick!” The fact that you could even try to turn this into a positive trait makes me wonder if you’re a card-carrying member of the MRA. > [@Blake](#): > > You are coming across as a real misandyst prude here. That any man writing about what is important to his sexual experiences is immediately sexist if he doesn’t write about what is important to his partner as well. Strange, I don’t remember saying this. I said it’s the _way_ he describes what is important about his sexual experiences makes him sexist. Doesn’t need to write a verse about his partner’s feelings, but when she’s portrayed in a song as nothing but a receptacle for his dick, yeah, I think it comes across as sexist. > [@Blake](#): > > Yes, because any man who says that he desires sex with a woman, and that her appearance enhances his sexual desire, must be deeply, deeply sexist. > > :rolleyes: Damn, that seems like a reasonable and astute statement of my position! I’m against sexual desire and attractiveness! Sounds like I’m probably some sort of femi-nazi. > [@Blake](#): > > Seriously, you are coming across like the biggest, misandist prude imaginable. > > You need to just accept that men like to fuck, and that men find a woman’s appearance to be an important part of their sexual desirability. > > Your idea that any man who admits to that is sexist is ridiculously juvenile. Yeah, I must be one of those self-hating men, trying to keep the rest of you oppressed. Thanks for pointing out that I need to accept that men like to fuck, though - that was something I’d been working through with my therapist, but I couldn’t make a breakthrough. I’m glad you’ve set me on the path to enlightenment. Funny thing I’ve learned in my prude studies, though: women also like to fuck. And yet the majority of these adolescent-level sex lyrics are sung by men. Wonder why that is? Oh, yeah: 'cause they loves them some sex. Not really sure why you take such offense/get so defensive about the subject. Maybe you’re a fan of shitty hard rock? Couldn’t be anything else. Then again, maybe you shouldn’t take anything I say seriously. I’m probably just being overly sensitive and a tad hysterical, because the whole thing is just the way men are, and they don’t mean anything by it. > [@Princhester](#): > > Yup, you don’t know what sexism is. I was right the first time. I explained my reasoning in post #40. You haven’t explained a damn thing about your position. But then, I guess you’re the expert on sexism, so you don’t have to. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/56 "2014-06-20T13:10:32Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > If you think it’s not sexist, I’d wonder the same about you. I can think of no instance in which I referred to my SO as “woman” where it wouldn’t sound condescending and piss her off. But maybe it’s an age thing - we’d both be grossed out by the term “lover”, as well. Wait, the term “lover” is sexist, too? I’m with **Princhester** here. Your definition of sexism is… odd. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/57 "2014-06-20T13:35:36Z")
Getting back on topic, I think the absolute kings of sexist assholes have to be The Beatles. Some of their songs sound like a primer on domestic violence. [Run For Your Life](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Run-For-Your-Life-lyrics-The-Beatles/E62DECFE3805D87248256BC2001369B4): “You better run for your life if you can, little girl Hide your head in the sand little girl Catch you with another man That’s the end’a little girl” [You Can’t Do That](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/You-Can%27t-Do-That-lyrics-The-Beatles/A95B7ED71D2CE10E48256BC20012A3A6) I’ve got somethin’ to say that might cause you pain If I catch you talkin’ to that boy again I’m gonna let you down And leave you flat Because I told you before oh, You can’t do that [You Like Me Too Much](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/You-Like-Me-Too-Much-lyrics-The-Beatles/16E594EB9A82F8CD48256BC2001336C6) If you leave me I will follow you And bring you back where you belong 'cause I couldn’t really stand it, I admit that I was wrong, I wouldn’t let you leave me 'cause it’s true, 'cause you like me too much and I like you. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/58 "2014-06-20T14:15:20Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You do realize, do you, that “Young Girl” does not depict the singer as having, or attempting to have sexual relations with a young girl? It depicts the singer attempting to discourage and dissuade a young girl (which presumably means a teenager, and not necessarily one under 18) from attempting to have sexual relations with him. > > _The Rolling Stones_’ “Stray Cat Blues”, on the other hand … Whether or not there was sex involved, these lines make it pretty clear she is under aged “With all the charms of a woman You’ve kept the secret of your youth You led me to believe You’re old enough To give me Love And now it hurts to know the truth” Gary is still active, I looked and he just played Vegas last month. Imagine that sung by a 70 year old. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/59 "2014-06-20T14:31:05Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > Whether or not there was sex involved, these lines make it pretty clear she is under aged > > “With all the charms of a woman > You’ve kept the secret of your youth > You led me to believe > You’re old enough > To give me Love > And now it hurts to know the truth” > > Gary is still active, I looked and he just played Vegas last month. Imagine that sung by a 70 year old. I haven’t read all the lyrics, but so far what is quoted doesn’t look “sexist” (though it may be “gross” depending on the age of the singer!). Again, it is possible to be “gross” without being “sexist”. A 20 year old guy finding out that the woman he thought was near his own age is actually 16, and being unhappy about it, is neither sexist nor gross; a 70 year old chasing after women young enough to be his granddaughter is gross, but not necessarily sexist. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2014, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/60 "2014-06-20T14:44:01Z")
James Brown. I love his music - he’s one of my favourite singers - but some of his songs are just demeaning. Even “this is a man’s world,” which says women are really important, also says that men do everything that’s actually useful. Women exist to give the world meaning for the men who make the world. Beautiful song (that I love), but sexist as hell. Brown was also apparently just like that in his personal life too, and he’s definitely considered great, so I’d say he’s a contender. > [@Blake](#): > > I must be missing something. How is this sexist? Tasteless, sure, but sexist? > > Young woman, well dressed, moves sensually, sexually attractive. Narrator wants to stroke her legs in order to make her sexually aroused, then have sexual relations with her. Covering her in body lotion (or possibly semen) is involved. > > This seems like a description of a really bog-standard, vanilla, heterosexual male fantasy. One that I’m sure that 95% of straight men (and lesbians) have had. > > So in what way is it sexist? The only vaguely sexist thing that I can see is the use of the term “girl” for woman, but that was (and still is) so prevalent amongst under 25s of both sexes that it isn’t even worth commenting on. > > Or are you perhaps claiming that it’s sexist because it is entirely a sexual fantasy and the narrator doesn’t fantasise about talking to the woman about her problems first? > > :dubious: I agree, there’s nothing sexist in that song. Sexual and sexist are not the same thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110.md?page=4)