# Most sexist musical act that's considered "great"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110 "2014-06-18T23:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![zombywoof](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/9e8a1a/32.png) [@zombywoof](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zombywoof)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/81 "2014-06-22T03:17:56Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > There is nothing disparaging in their. [sic] > > First off, the woman in the song is never at any point described as ugly. Perhaps you missed the part where she’s referred to as “the dog” (23 times, if my count is correct)? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/82 "2014-06-22T04:18:59Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Perhaps you missed the part where she’s referred to as “the dog” (23 times, if my count is correct)? Perhaps you didn’t actually read this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/83 "2014-06-22T21:05:27Z")
Is this one of those threads where “sexist” only refers to saying bad things about women? I found Single Ladies by Beyonce to be rather sexist. The underlying message is that it’s the man’s fault that the woman is seeing other guys because he didn’t want to commit to marriage. Au Contraire. I put forth Golddigger by Kanye West. If the guy’s got money and a good job, she won’t be seeing other guys. Odds are a guy came along with more money and a better job. The song about “If God was a Woman” is rather sexist too. The premise is that somehow, women make better decisions than men. While it is true men are more likely to be in power and make more decisions overall, thus increasing the total number of bad decisions, it’s ludicrous to think women won’t make as many or more bad decisions if given the opportunity. That’s almost the definition of sexism. 2LiveCrew has been arrested for the sexism in their songs, but imho, they’re just telling the truth. It’s not the truth people want to hear, but it’s true enough (From Doo Wah Diddy): _She’ll suck on my dick if I buy her a rock_ (Beyonce turned the same idea into a women’s power anthem in Single Ladies.) _When I took her ass home the pussy smelled like hell_ (Yes, please, everyone, kill that funky smell, particularly if you catch the bus.) ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/84 "2014-06-22T22:07:06Z")
> [@Superhal](#): > > Is this one of those threads where “sexist” only refers to saying bad things about women? > > I found Single Ladies by Beyonce to be rather sexist. The underlying message is that it’s the man’s fault that the woman is seeing other guys because he didn’t want to commit to marriage. Au Contraire. I put forth Golddigger by Kanye West. If the guy’s got money and a good job, she won’t be seeing other guys. Odds are a guy came along with more money and a better job. She (first with her group) made a career of of sexist songs about how the man better pay all the bills, alternating with “independent women” empowerment anthems. I don’t know how much if any of the material she wrote herself- I was also thinking of single “If I Were a Boy”- but I know that was written by someone else and sold to her. ---
**Author:** ![pojimba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@pojimba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pojimba)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/85 "2014-06-22T22:49:23Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To my mind there is a distinction to be made between “songs about wanting sex”, “songs about the singer’s unhappiness with a lover”, “songs that are creepy as hell”, and “sexist songs” - though of course the same song can be all four! 😃 > > To my ear, a prime example of a song that is “sexist” without any hints sexual aggression is Cat Stevens - Wild World. It is just incredibly paternalistic and patronizing - though it is obviously _intended_ to be sweet and sentimental. The chorus “I’ll always remember you like a child, girl” is both sexist and creepy as hell, when addressed to a presumably adult woman the singer has been sleeping with! :eek: Is that what that song is about? If so, I’m stupid, because I always took it as a fathers plea to his daughter, offering advice, etc. In a similar vein to Father and Son. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/86 "2014-06-22T22:50:51Z")
> [@Hypno-Toad](#): > > Would you consider ZZ top videos to be sexist? You’re right about the songs really just saying, “I want to have sex.” But in at least one video, the band takes the “unattractive” girl and make her pretty by slutting her up. I think that could be considered sexist. Are you referring to “Legs?” That would be the one in which a shy and unassertive woman working in a strip mall meets a cute but meek guy, and their bosses and most everyone else hanging around are assholes and bullies towards them. Then a trio of scantily-clad females drives up and gives the woman a physical makeover along with a crash course in assertiveness training, with the end result being the woman tells all the bullies to go to hell, makes the first move on the cute guy, and they ride off into the sunset. I mean, I suppose you could find some sexism there if you delve deep enough into concepts of attractiveness as a component of self-worth, but that goes far deeper into cultural consciousness than a single video. And I’d be a little cautious about worrying too much about “girl” or “woman” or whatever–song lyrics are as much about meter and rhyme as anything else. ---
**Author:** ![pojimba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@pojimba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pojimba)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/87 "2014-06-22T23:06:35Z")
Just read the Wiki article. Color me stupid. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/88 "2014-06-23T05:08:01Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > I explained my reasoning in post #40. You haven’t explained a damn thing about your position. But then, I guess you’re the expert on sexism, so you don’t have to. Can’t be bothered, mostly. But basically: what **Blake** said. A key misunderstanding on your part seems to be that you regard “being less than utterly considerate and respectful to a woman, and sometimes thinking of your own interests rather than hers” as inherently sexist. Sexism like racism is about regarding and or treating people of one sex (race) as being inferior. Being inconsiderate or disrespectful to a woman is not _inherently_ sexist unless you are motivated by your sexism. Calling a woman a dumbass is not inherently sexist: maybe she’s just a dumbass. If you wouldn’t call a man out for saying another man is ugly, but would call him out for saying a woman is ugly, then _you_ are sexist, not him. Treating all women as if they are precious petals who must be elevated onto a pedestal is highly sexist, since you are suggesting they are less resilient than men. I think that your feelings on this subject are such that what you really meant your thread to ask was “What is the musical act that’s considered great that shows the greatest self centeredness or obnoxiousness towards a woman?” Finally, there’s the terminological thing. When I was a kid, (around the time Led Zep were big) calling your lover\* “woman” was not an insult or a failure to recognise her individuality. It was intended as an admiring acknowledgement of her womanliness. And while that might be sexist in, say, a business context, it hardly seems sexist in an erotic context, being a context in which the inherent differences between men and women hardly need to be denied. \*Heh, I used that word on purpose. Suck it up 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/89 "2014-06-23T05:16:27Z")
There’s a whole genre of vengeful cuckold: Papa Loved Mama (Garth Brooks), Delilah (Tom Jones), My Aim Is True (Elvis Costello), Radio Lover (George Jones). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/90 "2014-06-23T05:27:01Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > You do realize, do you, that “Young Girl” does not depict the singer as having, or attempting to have sexual relations with a young girl? It depicts the singer attempting to discourage and dissuade a young girl (which presumably means a teenager, and not necessarily one under 18) from attempting to have sexual relations with him. > [@Blake](#): > > Not really. > > It depicts the singer as being in love with the girl, thinking about the young girl constantly and having almost irresistible urges to have sex with her. Urges which he is unable to fight if she is even in the same room with him. Hence the warning that she should leave before he changes his mind and fucks her. That’s a far cry from the singer unilaterally attempting to dissuade a young girl from having sex with him. I agree with Blake. The song starts with _“Young girl, get out of my mind/My love for you is way out of line.”_ This isn’t the singer talking about a girl’s attraction for him. He’s singing about his attraction for her. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/91 "2014-06-23T07:29:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree with Blake. The song starts with _“Young girl, get out of my mind/My love for you is way out of line.”_ This isn’t the singer talking about a girl’s attraction for him. He’s singing about his attraction for her. The lyric that bothers me is “my love for you is way out of line.” It seems to suggest that the character feels he is on the verge of committing a major social gaffe (and nothing more) by having sex with her. Whereas it SHOULD read, “my love for you is a felony crime” which is more in line with our current sensibilities. The lyrics trivialize having sex with an underage girl. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/92 "2014-06-23T08:02:27Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Seems to me it’s a matter of usage - “my man” is a term of endearment, whereas addressing your SO as “woman” instead of her name (or a pet name) implies disrespect; I always associate it, rightly or not, with phrases like, “Woman, get me a beer!” or “You’d better watch your mouth, woman.” Do you not think it would be off-putting if your wife started a sentence with “Male…” rather than your name? Weird. I always associate with phrases like “Damn, woman, you clean up nice!” ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/93 "2014-06-23T14:37:10Z")
> [@pojimba](#): > > Is that what that song is about? If so, I’m stupid, because I always took it as a fathers plea to his daughter, offering advice, etc. In a similar vein to Father and Son. So paternalistic, he was actually mistaken for her dad! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bldysabba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@bldysabba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bldysabba)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/94 "2014-06-23T15:59:17Z")
> [@zombywoof](#): > > Perhaps you missed the part where she’s referred to as “the dog” (23 times, if my count is correct)? If only you’d made this post a few years from now, we’d at least have a brilliant username/post combo to admire. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/95 "2014-06-23T20:57:02Z")
Now contrast with some for-real straight up sexism, like “Bitches Ain’t Shit”. Sexist-est part? Yeah, calling women bitches and hoes and tricks is sexist, but that’s not the most sexist part. It’s referring to Easy-E as “she”. Like the most insulting degrading thing Dre can say about Easy-E is to compare him to a woman. That’s pure mainline sexism. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/96 "2014-06-23T21:40:49Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > (any time a singer addresses the subject of a song as merely “woman”, I wince) Now I’ve heard everything. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/97 "2014-06-24T00:39:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I haven’t read all the lyrics, but so far what is quoted doesn’t look “sexist” (though it may be “gross” depending on the age of the singer!). > > Again, it is possible to be “gross” without being “sexist”. A 20 year old guy finding out that the woman he thought was near his own age is actually 16, and being unhappy about it, is neither sexist nor gross; a 70 year old chasing after women young enough to be his granddaughter is gross, but not necessarily sexist. Why is that even ‘gross’? Assuming everyone involved is 18+, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/98 "2014-06-24T00:50:59Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > To my mind there is a distinction to be made between “songs about wanting sex”, “songs about the singer’s unhappiness with a lover”, “songs that are creepy as hell”, and “sexist songs” - though of course the same song can be all four! 😃 > > To my ear, a prime example of a song that is “sexist” without any hints sexual aggression is Cat Stevens - Wild World. It is just incredibly paternalistic and patronizing - though it is obviously _intended_ to be sweet and sentimental. The chorus “I’ll always remember you like a child, girl” is both sexist and creepy as hell, when addressed to a presumably adult woman the singer has been sleeping with! :eek: I don’t find the song either sexist or creepy. For one thing, he’s being paternalistic towards someone he’s in a relationship with, not ‘women’ in general. I realize it’s fashionable nowadays (at least among some people) to insist that relationships be all about a ‘partnership between equals’ or whatever, but that certainly isn’t the traditional ideal for relationships between men and women, and some of us still subscribe to the traditional ideal. The song is pretty emblematic of what I’d say an ideal relationship between a man and his girlfriend/wife/etc. should be like. (I guess I’m the intended audience for the song, because I did find it sweet and sentimental). ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/99 "2014-06-24T12:01:35Z")
For me, Wild World was always more of a father lamenting to his daughter about the bad world out there. She intent on leaving and his need to protect her. It sort of worked as a complement song to his Father and Son song, of the two not meeting eye to eye, again Father trying to impart his wisdom, on the life his Son will encounter. In that song Father and Son take turns in the verses so you get both sides of the story. Stevens doesn’t use the same device in Wild World. I wonder if he had written a verse or two from the female perspective it would come across differently. However, If the song is about a relationship between a man and a woman, I agree, it is sexist to expect that any woman in a liberated society would cowtow to paternalism. Of course many world religions are based in paternalism which is sexist towards women. He being Muslim, or if he were devout Catholic or Orthodox Jew, there is inherent sexism in how they chose to practice their faith. So it could be an honest reflection of that horrifying reality. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/100 "2014-06-24T12:23:04Z")
The Stones. Mick always seems to garble the lyrics so we don’t really want to know what he’s singing. Like Some Girls, the song about hooking up with all types of “girls” and all he gets in return is a dose of std, a kid, or a lighter wallet : French girls they want Cartier Italian girls want cars American girls want everything in the world You can possibly imagine English girls they’re so prissy I can’t stand them on the telephone Sometimes I take the receiver off the hook I don’t want them to ever call at all White girls they’re pretty funny Sometimes they drive me mad Black girls just wanna get fucked all night I just don’t have that much jam Chinese girls are so gentle They’re really such a tease You never know quite what they’re cookin’ Inside those silky sleeves [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110.md?page=6)