# Most sexist musical act that's considered "great"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 18, 2014, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110 "2014-06-18T23:06:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/141 "2014-06-27T00:40:24Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > How about an entire musical . . . _Kiss Me, Kate_ ? I was thinking _Annie Get Your Gun._Annie Oakley – who laments “But my score with a feller / Is lower than a cellar / Oh, you can’t get a man with a gun!” – is a better sharpshooter than her love-interest Frank Butler – which riles his male ego, to the point where he goes off with a different Wild West show. When they meet again they’re butting heads – “Anything you can do, I can do better! / I can do anything better than you!” In the end, Sitting Bull talks Annie into throwing a shooting match with Frank, and she wins him and is happy. The story subverts sexism by making the woman tough and independent and even superior to the man, but reinforces it by sending the message that superior women are better off hiding it, because, after all, what **really** matters is pleasing your man and a woman needs a man to complete her. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/142 "2014-06-27T02:05:24Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yet, the whole point of the song is loneliness, alientation and isolation - that the singer knows damn well that what he needs isn’t the “maid”, but something deeper and more profound - hence the juxtiposition of “a man needs a maid” with the plaintive “when can I see you again?”. > > What say you people? Precisely. Mrs P overheard just the title lyric and snorted about this song but as you say, it’s actually about a lonely man _kidding himself_ that all he needs is a maid, when actually he knows he wants a relationship. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/143 "2014-06-27T02:27:12Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > Regarding Cat Stevens’ “Wild World.” It’s _not_ about his daughter. > > From the [Wikipedia page](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_World) (citation included). Ah! That explains a less-known song of Stevens’ – [“My Lady D’Arbanville.”](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjfI3uSN8DQ) ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2014, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/144 "2014-06-27T02:35:02Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > But my point was, again, I think there’s more implicit sexism in a man calling a woman giving him sexual favors ugly than the other way around because of historical and cultural factors. We are going around in circles at this point. But I think you need to consider more deeply what it would take for the cultural factors to change. I would suggest that for that to occur, women have to be treated more equally. And that has to involve \*changing away from \*the chivalrous model that underpins your views. One side of chivalry is being very kind to women. The other inherent side is that this results in women being seen as people to whom one has to be especially kind, ie less robust. IMHO, you are part of the problem you decry, you just don’t realise it. > [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > But, for what feels like the hundredth time, if the role of a woman in an act’s songs is limited exclusively to sex object/evil succubus, I think it’s reasonable to draw conclusions about their feelings on women in general. But it isn’t reasonable. It’s actually ridiculous. Art mines certain rich veins of human emotion. Sex, love, relationship breakdown, poverty, loneliness, alienation etc. There are musical genres that have developed focus on particular things. Blues for example tends historically to be about poverty or relationship breakdown or both. You just can’t have blues which is about having a decent income and being in a stable relationship with someone you are very comfortable with. It would be boring as fuck and it just isn’t what the genre is about. Blues, and heavy metal are _acts_. You know the actors who have a reputation for playing bad guys in movies are actually just regular guys who you’d probably quite like, right? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/145 "2014-07-06T19:18:19Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Oh, OK - I’m not in my 70s, then. > [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Nope, never said that. I said “lover” is gross. But again, that’s probably because I’m not in my 60s. Similarly, I would never say “make love” (also gross), but I don’t think it’s sexist at all. WBB seems to be unapologetically ageist. Also, his discomfort with the words make love and lover is bizarre. He needs to take it up with a therapist. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2014, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/146 "2014-07-06T19:46:37Z")
> [@armedmonkey](#): > > Getting back on topic, I think the absolute kings of sexist assholes have to be The Beatles. Some of their songs sound like a primer on domestic violence. > > [Run For Your Life](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Run-For-Your-Life-lyrics-The-Beatles/E62DECFE3805D87248256BC2001369B4): > > “You better run for your life if you can, little girl > Hide your head in the sand little girl > Catch you with another man > That’s the end’a little girl” > [You Can’t Do That](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/You-Can%27t-Do-That-lyrics-The-Beatles/A95B7ED71D2CE10E48256BC20012A3A6) > > I’ve got somethin’ to say that might cause you pain > If I catch you talkin’ to that boy again > I’m gonna let you down > And leave you flat > Because I told you before > oh, You can’t do that > [You Like Me Too Much](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/You-Like-Me-Too-Much-lyrics-The-Beatles/16E594EB9A82F8CD48256BC2001336C6) > > If you leave me > I will follow you > And bring you back where you belong > 'cause I couldn’t really stand it, > I admit that I was wrong, > I wouldn’t let you leave me 'cause it’s true, > 'cause you like me too much and I like you. Of the stuff I’m familiar with, early Beatles is rife with cringe-worthy misogyny. More so than the Rolling Stones. ---
**Author:** ![DZedNConfused](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dzednconfused/32/15991_2.png) [@DZedNConfused](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DZedNConfused)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/147 "2014-07-12T21:23:04Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Seems to me it’s a matter of usage - “my man” is a term of endearment, whereas addressing your SO as “woman” instead of her name (or a pet name) implies disrespect; I always associate it, rightly or not, with phrases like, “Woman, get me a beer!” or “You’d better watch your mouth, woman.” Do you not think it would be off-putting if your wife started a sentence with “Male…” rather than your name? Man, I dunno, seems like hair splitting to me. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/148 "2014-07-12T22:59:20Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Of the stuff I’m familiar with, early Beatles is rife with cringe-worthy misogyny. More so than the Rolling Stones. Can you really be serious? Have you ever heard songs like “Under My Thumb”, about how great it is to have a woman totally emotionally dependent on you, or “Yesterdays Papers”, about the worthlessness an old girlfriend (not because there is anything wrong with her, just because the singer has had her, and she is now discarded)? How about “Midnight Rambler,” a celebration of violent rape? There are many, many more Stones songs that are overtly and often quite extremely disrespectful and objectifying about women. By comparison, The Beatles are, with the one exception of “Run For Your Life”, well, not really misogynistic at all. If you are trying really, really hard you can probably detect faint hints of it in a few songs, some of which touch on themes of possessiveness or jealousy, but that is going to be true of practically any male artist from any era. (And probably quite a few female ones too - and yes I am talking about misogyny, not misandry. Set your standards too absurdly high and everyone who is being remotely emotionally honest will fail them.) ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/149 "2014-07-13T00:28:29Z")
> [@njtt](#): > > Can you really be serious? > > Have you ever heard songs like “Under My Thumb”, about how great it is to have a woman totally emotionally dependent on you, or “Yesterdays Papers”, about the worthlessness an old girlfriend (not because there is anything wrong with her, just because the singer has had her, and she is now discarded)? How about “Midnight Rambler,” a celebration of violent rape? There are many, many more Stones songs that are overtly and often quite extremely disrespectful and objectifying about women. > > By comparison, The Beatles are, with the one exception of “Run For Your Life”, well, not really misogynistic at all. If you are trying really, really hard you can probably detect faint hints of it in a few songs, some of which touch on themes of possessiveness or jealousy, but that is going to be true of practically any male artist from any era. (And probably quite a few female ones too - and yes I am talking about misogyny, not misandry. Set your standards too absurdly high and everyone who is being remotely emotionally honest will fail them.) Don’t forget, Brown Sugar. ---
**Author:** ![TheCaneShow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TheCaneShow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheCaneShow)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/150 "2014-07-13T04:09:28Z")
@xizor: “Early in his career Eminem was considered extremely sexist and misogynistic. Now he is rap royalty.” Those were his good songs though. Of course they were utterly horrible but in a comedic way. ---
**Author:** ![MsKaren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@MsKaren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsKaren)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110/151 "2014-07-13T10:05:56Z")
Did you see the \*Onion \*satire article: “Eminem Terrified As Daughter Begins Dating Man Raised On His Music” ? 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-sexist-musical-act-thats-considered-great/691110.md?page=7)