# Most spectacularly over-the-top perspective on Netanyahu's speech, courtesy of the NY Post **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 4, 2015, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231 "2015-03-04T23:09:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/21 "2015-03-05T15:12:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Support for Netanyahu and Israel is treason and sedition, but the NY Post is the most over the top perspective you can see. > > You people never fail to amuse. > > Regards, > Shodan “You people”? What do you mean by “you people”? ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/22 "2015-03-05T17:19:48Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Support for Netanyahu and Israel is treason and sedition, but the NY Post is the most over the top perspective you can see. > > You people never fail to amuse. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, it’s over-the-top to say that congressmen who attended the speech were being treasonous. I think their actions are damaging to the interests of the United States but that does not make them treasonous. I hope, by the way, you don’t mean to imply that support for Netanyahu and support for Israel are identical positions. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/23 "2015-03-05T17:21:15Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > “You people”? What do you mean by “you people”? Idiots. I see you recognized the reference. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/24 "2015-03-05T17:27:23Z")
> [@](#): > > …you don’t mean to imply… “Imply”? Imply is for the weak and uncertain. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/25 "2015-03-05T17:30:24Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Yes, it’s over-the-top to say that congressmen who attended the speech were being treasonous. I think their actions are damaging to the interests of the United States but that does not make them treasonous. You’re missing the point. The NY Post’s article is not over-the-top, but your reaction to and characterization of it was. That’s what I found amusing - the suggestion that Netanyahu gave a better speech than Obama could have, or even (horrors) that Netanyahu is right and Obama is wrong, sends you into spasms. You know how your father-in-law looks to you? That’s how you look to people of rational mind. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/26 "2015-03-05T17:38:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You know how your father-in-law looks to you? That’s how you look to people of rational mind. Spoken like someone with multiple Pit threads dedicated to what an insipid twat he is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/27 "2015-03-05T17:38:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > … That’s how you look to people of rational mind… You misspelled “rationalizing”. ---
**Author:** ![OurLordPeace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e8c25b/32.png) [@OurLordPeace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OurLordPeace)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/28 "2015-03-05T17:50:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > When someone has repeatedly declared their hate for you, have repeatedly said they wished you were dead, and have repeatedly said that it would be evil and wrong of them not to kill you the first chance they get, then why wouldn’t you take them at their word? The Iranian leader who supposedly said that, Ahmadinejad, is out of office. In any case, “the Iranian threat” is almost entirely fictitious, and it really ought to be more remarkable that people are falling for the same nonsense once again. > [@](#): > > Naively scoffing at the “warmongers” was very fashionable in 1938 too. Are you serious? If so, I invoke Godwin, and you lose. > [@Shodan](#): > > Support for Netanyahu and Israel is treason and sedition, but the NY Post is the most over the top perspective you can see. > > You people never fail to amuse. > > Regards, > Shodan I’m not personally invested in notions of treason per se, because I think that notions of right and wrong should obviously take supremacy over arbitrary national boundaries. With that said, Israel is a foreign power, with foreign policy priorities that do not necessarily jibe with (and are often directly contrary to!) those of the United States, nor with basic human decency. Israeli governments have a habit of trying to manipulate the US into doing their bidding, and sometimes they’re successful. Netanyahu is a war criminal (like Obama, of course), and I thought everyone knew that the NY Post is a comedic tabloid. The corporate media is bad overall, but things like the NY Post are beyond the pale. > [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > How are the Republicans “treasonous”? > > Are people who were more supportive of the “Spear of the Nation” than Ronald Reagan “treasonous”? See above, though I myself am quite partial to the idea that principles matter much more than presidents and countries, and I would definitely lean towards Spear of the Nation, among others! ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/29 "2015-03-05T18:00:09Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > Spoken like someone with multiple Pit threads dedicated to what an insipid twat he is. Ah, but this one is about you. You seem to have grossly over-reacted to the idea that Netanyahu’s speech was better than Obama’s SotU speech of a few weeks back. Is this a symptom of mental disease or defect, or are you using habit-forming drugs? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/30 "2015-03-05T18:02:50Z")
In your case, it might well be a step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/31 "2015-03-05T18:15:20Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > When someone has repeatedly declared their hate for you, have repeatedly said they wished you were dead, and have repeatedly said that it would be evil and wrong of them not to kill you the first chance they get, then why wouldn’t you take them at their word? > > Naively scoffing at the “warmongers” was very fashionable in 1938 too. There can be broad agreement that a non-nuclear Iran is better than a nuclear Iran. That does not imply that war with Iran is the best way, or a good way at all, to approach the issue. Like many other observers, I believe that the most likely consequence of following Netanyahu’s policy recommendations on this matter would be war between the US and Iran. In that sense, he is a warmonger. Netanyahu invoked the spectre of the Holocaust to make his point, which is a relevant analogy if and only if you believe that a) the Iranians are comparable to the Nazis not just in intent but also in capacity to do harm, and b) that the Iranian regime is literally suicidal. Because I view both A and B as absurdities, the analogy strikes me as irrelevant and serves only as an appeal to emotion and a way to take his policy disagreement with Obama outside the realm of rational debate. In that sense, he is a demagogue. As someone said, those who overlearn the lessons of the past are destined to make the opposite mistake. Viewing every foreign crisis through the lens of the Sudetenland has proven time and again produce very poor policy recommendations, because it is so rarely a fitting analogy to the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/32 "2015-03-05T18:17:04Z")
Republicans love to portray Obama as an empty suit who gives great but meaningless speeches. Then they praise Netanyahu for giving a meaningless speech with no concrete proposals, but gee such passion, such words, such talk talk. Useless, seditious, treasonous cunts. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/33 "2015-03-05T18:28:50Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You seem to have grossly over-reacted to the idea that Netanyahu’s speech was better than Obama’s SotU speech of a few weeks back. Is this a symptom of mental disease or defect, or are you using habit-forming drugs? > > Regards, > Shodan On the contrary, I don’t object to the idea that he gave a “better” speech–however so defined–than Obama’s SoTU address, which unlike Netanyahu’s I didn’t even watch. I have spent 6 years saying that Obama’s oratorical career peaked in 2004. His supposed golden tongue is much over-rated in my opinion; if anything, he’s often proven to be a pretty lousy communicator. Netanyahu is a very effective orator, which is no doubt why he’s been so successful politically despite demonstrating such consistently poor judgment on foreign policy over a multi-decade period. My objection is to the comical extravagance of likening such a self-serving demagogue as Netanyahu to Moses, and the Post’s gross exaggeration of the substantive merits of the speech, as well as their silly fixation on Obama’s refusal to say “Radical Islam,” those Magic Words that they so long to hear him speak. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/34 "2015-03-05T20:26:34Z")
Of course, for all we know Moses was a self-serving demagogue, too. The source material on this is pretty sparse. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/35 "2015-03-05T20:57:01Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > Of course, for all we know Moses was a self-serving demagogue, too. The source material on this is pretty sparse. Well we at least know that Moses didn’t bring up the Nazis every time he tried to make a point. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/36 "2015-03-05T21:13:09Z")
> [@Spavined\_Gelding](#): > > Of course, for all we know Moses was a self-serving demagogue, too. The source material on this is pretty sparse. He didn’t think much of his own speaking skills: > [@Exodus 4:10](#): > > And Moses said unto the Lord, O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither heretofore, nor since thou hast spoken unto thy servant: but I am slow of speech, and of a slow tongue. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/37 "2015-03-05T21:16:39Z")
> [@Donald\_Rump](#): > > On the contrary, I don’t object to the idea that he gave a “better” speech–however so defined–than Obama’s SoTU address, which unlike Netanyahu’s I didn’t even watch. Then why did you bold the sentence in the article referring to it, and choose that as a particular example of something that drove you insane? Or possibly “more insane”. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/38 "2015-03-05T21:36:19Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Then why did you bold the sentence in the article referring to it, and choose that as a particular example of something that drove you insane? Or possibly “more insane”. What I find to be over-the-top about the Post’s coverage of this particular event is the totally misplaced hero-worship and uncritical adulation they insist on heaping on someone who deserves none of it. I am sure it must be very pleasing to Netanyahu’s considerable ego to be compared in certain corners to Moses or Churchill, but that doesn’t make it any less true that he’s a petty man who’s made a brilliant career out of perennial threat-inflation. But if it makes my meaning more clear, allow me to be more precise in my bolding: > [@](#): > > It was a \*\*triumph \*\*— because, unlike Obama, **Netanyahu had something of surpassing importance to say** , and he said it with force, with strength, with conviction and with **grace**. The speech was a “triumph” only for those who believe that important policy decisions should be made on the basis of appeals to emotion, gross distortions of geopolitical reality, and exaggerated threats. The speech may have contained something of “surpassing importance” if Netanyahu had made a constructive, realistic policy proposal instead of merely trotting out ill-fitting historical analogies and misrepresentations of regional dynamics. The speech in its very conception was without grace, and is reflective of the sort of insolence that makes Israel under Netanyahu, far from being a trusted and valuable ally, one of our most troublesome clients. The only individuals in this sorry Iran affair who’ve shown an ounce of statesmanship and political courage are President Obama and PM Cameron, with a special shout-out to those Congressmen who decided to pass on spending their morning as extras in an Israeli campaign ad. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2015, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/39 "2015-03-05T23:39:35Z")
This just in: Shodan, an inept blindly ideological cum-sock. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2015, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231/40 "2015-03-06T02:49:47Z")
Nonsense. He’s quite competent at being a blindly ideological cum-sock. Please omit the comma after his name, though. That will make it look like a headline, with an implied predicate, rather than an unfinished sentence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-spectacularly-over-the-top-perspective-on-netanyahus-speech-courtesy-of-the-ny-post/714231.md?page=3)