# Most successful military family **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 23, 2018, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136 "2018-08-23T22:49:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/21 "2018-08-25T00:12:31Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I haven’t found confirmation yet but I seem to recall that there is at least one colonel in the next generation of Abrams. I vaguely recall something similar but didn’t find anything on a quick search before I posted yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![etasyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9f8e36/32.png) [@etasyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etasyde)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/22 "2018-08-25T00:23:18Z")
I hear tell the Ceasars had a good run, since people are dredging up really old examples. I’d wager the older you go, the more impact you’ll see (what with generals all too often becoming monarchs), and monarchs leading troops in classical days. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/23 "2018-08-25T03:25:50Z")
> [@Enginerd](#): > > Is this really true? In my family, there are three O-10s who began their careers during WWII (related by their kids’ marriages, not a single generation descended from the same family). They had kids who went to the academies and were career officers - they all retired at O-6. Their grandkids who served were ROTC rather than academy grads and weren’t career officers, instead moving on around O-3 or O-4. Of course anyone’s mileage may vary; I just meant that if the generals are doing the picking, children of generals they know may have a slight leg up vs. some random other Colonel vying for the same star. It works the same way in the private sector as well; social networks tend to keep people at about the same social level, for good or ill. If your dad is a state senator, you’re likely to have a leg up in that state’s political life vs. some no-name community activist. Hell, I saw it in a friend of mine; her dad was a high-ranking airline exec, and sure enough, she ended up with a series of airline/transportation related marketing positions and she’s ended up an exec for a major transportation company (you’d know it if I said it; it’s a household name of sorts). It’s not that she’s not competent, but having a dad who was once CEO of a major 1950s-1980s airline sure doesn’t hurt when trying to get transportation-related jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/24 "2018-08-25T13:42:23Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Ok… I guess it still comes back to scoring. > > Would you say a family with a long tradition of enlisted excellence (like say 5 generations of E-8/E-9s) to be less successful than a family with 2-3 generations of generals? > > I mean, from the outside, flag rank seems to be as political as it is professional, and as such, the children of generals and admirals are probably better positioned to play that game when their time comes than the offspring of some nameless E-5. But I suspect that it’s probably just as impressive in its own way to have a long chain of high-ranking enlisted. The scoring is arbitrary. If you want the question to read “Has there ever been another family with this many flag officers in two generations” feel free to consider it that way. Reaching E-9 certainly makes your career successful. You can’t argue that it’s as hard an accomplishment as reaching 4 star rank. At any given time there are about 3,700 E-9s in the Army. There are 7 4 star general billets. > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I get the impression that the government was more liberal about awarding the Medal of Honor in previous wars than it has been during the past couple of decades. I think only a handful of people have won it in the Middle East conflicts. There has certainly been an ebb and flow over the decades. The action that Arthur MacArthur was awarded the MoH for was pretty typical of how it was awarded in the Civil War. The same can’t be said of his son. I can see no justification for his award other than he really wanted it. As for Teddy, his actions were undoubtedly brave but in my opinion not to the appropriate level for the award. The same for his son. Volunteering to be on the beach in the first wave was brave but many others were in the wave with him and didn’t get the medal. He helped to lead the troops off the beach at Utah but others like Cota, Canham, and Taylor did that and more on Omaha under much worse conditions and they didn’t get the MoH. But he died of a heart attack a few days later and his name was Roosevelt. > [@bump](#): > > Of course anyone’s mileage may vary; I just meant that if the generals are doing the picking, children of generals they know may have a slight leg up vs. some random other Colonel vying for the same star. > > It works the same way in the private sector as well; social networks tend to keep people at about the same social level, for good or ill. If your dad is a state senator, you’re likely to have a leg up in that state’s political life vs. some no-name community activist. Hell, I saw it in a friend of mine; her dad was a high-ranking airline exec, and sure enough, she ended up with a series of airline/transportation related marketing positions and she’s ended up an exec for a major transportation company (you’d know it if I said it; it’s a household name of sorts). It’s not that she’s not competent, but having a dad who was once CEO of a major 1950s-1980s airline sure doesn’t hurt when trying to get transportation-related jobs. Having a famous father in the military can be a blessing and a curse. Just read the book Fortunate Son. The military especially as an officer is a zero defect career field. One bad evaluation can derail a career. One genuine fuck up certainly will. And then there are daddy’s enemies that might now be commanding you or on the promotion board. Family connections in most cases probably help more than hurt but it is far from being a guarantee of high rank. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/25 "2018-08-25T20:07:52Z")
> [@etasyde](#): > > I hear tell the Ceasars had a good run, since people are dredging up really old examples. I’d wager the older you go, the more impact you’ll see (what with generals all too often becoming monarchs), and monarchs leading troops in classical days. Not exactly in the case of the Julii family unless you’re really very flexible with how they handled “adoption”. In the extended Julio-Claudians you can find a fair number. Julius Ceaser himself, of course, was arguably the greatest commander in history, given his ability to not only secure battlefield victory but also to use the battlefield as an effective springboard to strategic aims. Octavian was good at handling politics, but he left the fighting to others, notably Agrippa. He later joined the Claudian clan, which helped bring him the service of Tiberius and Germanicus, both very capable commanders in their own right. The _Scipiones_ guys legitimately had a number of great military commanders from the same family leading troops, basically being the leading military family for almost the entire Punic Wars era, including Publius Cornelius Scipio, Scipio Africanus, Scipio Asiaticus, and Scipio Aemelianus\*, and several others we know by name. (\*Adopted into the family, but he was a close relative already.) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/26 "2018-08-27T21:10:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > The scoring is arbitrary. If you want the question to read “Has there ever been another family with this many flag officers in two generations” feel free to consider it that way. > > Reaching E-9 certainly makes your career successful. You can’t argue that it’s as hard an accomplishment as reaching 4 star rank. At any given time there are about 3,700 E-9s in the Army. There are 7 4 star general billets. I just meant that you can’t really compare apples to apples- a family with multiple E-9s is very successful in one way, as would a family with multiple flag rank officers. And you also can’t just say that higher rank = harder; clearly it’s massively harder to achieve E-9 than O-1, but in terms of de jure rank, the O-1 outranks the E-9. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/27 "2018-08-27T22:17:36Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > I won’t say stories like that are a dime a dozen but they kind of are. There are many families where some sort of military service is pretty much a requirement. How do those families tend to groom children to be in the military? What happens if one of them wants to do something else? > [@Loach](#): > > The pyramid is so steep near the top and there are so many obstacles that even with connections it is nearly impossible. There are only a handful of those positions available at any given time. Reaching retirement is a successful career. Reaching 4 star rank is well beyond successful. What do those people who make 4-star rank tend to have/do that enables them to reach that rank? > [@Loach](#): > > The military especially as an officer is a zero defect career field. One bad evaluation can derail a career. Do the evaluations tend to be forgiving? People tend to make mistakes as they learn skills. ---
**Author:** ![Sloe\_Moe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8797f3/32.png) [@Sloe\_Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sloe_Moe)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/28 "2018-08-27T23:13:03Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > One point against them: > > “As a Southerner I would say one of the main importances of the war is that Southerners have a sense of defeat which none of the rest of the country has. You see in the movie Patton, the actor who plays Patton saying, “We Americans have never lost a war.” That’s a rather amazing statement for him to make as Patton, because Patton’s grandfather was in Lee’s army of Northern Virginia and he certainly lost a war.” > -Shelby Foote. In PBSs “Civil War”. He meant the United States of America has never lost a war, and he was identifying himself to be of the US. Don’t start thinking about taking down any of Gen. Patton’s statues now. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/29 "2018-08-28T17:34:31Z")
How about the Barcids? Hannibal et. al. > **[Barcids](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcids)** > > The Barcid (Phoenician: 𐤁𐤓𐤒, romanized: baraq) family was a notable family in the ancient city of Carthage; many of its members were fierce enemies of the Roman Republic. "Barcid" is an adjectival form coined by historians (cf. "Ramesside" and "Abbasid"); the actual byname was Barca or Barcas, which means lightning. See .mw-parser-output .script-hebrew,.mw-parser-output .script-Hebr{font-family:"SBL Hebrew","SBL BibLit","Taamey Ashkenaz","Taamey Frank CLM","Frank Ruehl CLM","Ezra SIL","Ezra SIL S... ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/30 "2018-08-28T17:38:18Z")
I’m not sure, but I know I can start by scratching Custer off the list of candidates. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2018, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/31 "2018-08-28T19:38:58Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, [the McCain family](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_S._McCain_Jr.) hasn’t done too badly either. > > > [@Loach](#): > > > > Father/son admirals and grandson a Captain. No multiple flag officers in one generation. … FWIW, According to McCain’s Wall Street Journal obit (couldn’t get copy paste or cite from app, damnit), he “came from a family that fought in every American war since the American Revolution…and one of his forebears had served on the staff of General Washington.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/32 "2018-09-05T13:48:59Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I get the impression that the government was more liberal about awarding the Medal of Honor in previous wars than it has been during the past couple of decades. I think only a handful of people have won it in the Middle East conflicts. Definitely. For a long time, including during the Civil War, it was the only decoration offered by the U.S. military at all. One entire regiment was offered it just for reenlisting: [Medal of Honor - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medal_of_Honor#Evolution_of_criteria) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/33 "2018-09-05T14:32:34Z")
They are often forgotten now, but the Hapsburgs ruled a fair amount of Europe for centuries and more than a few members of that family commanded national armies on the battlefield (albeit with varying degrees of command and success). ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/34 "2018-09-05T14:59:44Z")
Well, there’s successful and there’s successful. The Bush family, for example, has a long history of military service - if not career, at least being in the service - and has also been at the top of American political power for almost a century. GWB - Member of National Guard. Governor. President GHWB - Naval aviator. Congressman, Head of CIA, Ambassador, President Prescott Bush - Served in WWI. United States Senator. Major fundraiser and power player. First treasurer for Planned Parenthood (!!!), Chair of the Connecticut branch of the United Negro College Fund (!!!) Samuel Prescott Bush - No military experience. But member of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland and organized the War Industries Board as the interface between the government and industry for war supplies. Say what you want, it’s a military family that is successful. But you could also say it’s a successful family - wildly so - with a history of military service. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2018, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136/35 "2018-09-05T23:05:36Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I’m not sure, but I know I can start by scratching Custer off the list of candidates. 😃 During the Civil War the Custers did pretty well. George went from second lieutenant at the start of the war all the way to major general (mostly recognized for “gallant and meritorious service”, including at Gettysburg). His brother Thomas was awarded the Medal of Honor _twice_ during the war. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-successful-military-family/820136.md?page=1)