# Most Tea Party Supporters Say Their Taxes Are Fair **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112 "2010-04-14T19:51:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/1 "2010-04-14T19:51:30Z")
A [CBS poll of those who support the Tea Party](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002487-503544.html) movement reveals that 52% of respondents feel their taxes are fair. So who is the “cut taxes” theme at their rallies appealing to? Are they out of touch? Does this bode poorly for their impact in the November elections? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/2 "2010-04-14T20:10:47Z")
Well, we’ve already established the teapartiers are poopy-pants, but did you actually read the article you linked to? Note the difference between “supporters” and “activists”. A “supporter” could anyone who thinks he aligns with their message, whether or not he even knows what the movement is about. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/3 "2010-04-14T20:13:49Z")
My questions are concerned with supporters, because they are the much larger group, which presumably will have a bigger effect in the election than the much smaller activist group. Who do you think the activists are appealing to, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/4 "2010-04-14T20:17:33Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, we’ve already established the teapartiers are poopy-pants, but did you actually read the article you linked to? Note the difference between “supporters” and “activists”. A “supporter” could anyone who thinks he aligns with their message, whether or not he even knows what the movement is about. Did _you_ actually read the article? [QUOTE=The article nobody reads] However, those most active in the Tea Party are less satisfied with the amount of income taxes they will pay.\*\* Fifty-five percent of Tea Party activists - those who have attended a rally or donated money - (about 4 percent of Americans overall) say their income taxes are unfair.\*\* [/QUOTE] Their whole point, aside from racism, hurting poor people, and liking god and guns is that taxes are unfair. This is like a very slim majority of active NOW members thinking abortions should be legal. Or a slim majority of active NRA members favoring looser controls on firearms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/5 "2010-04-14T20:21:51Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Did _you_ actually read the article? > > Their whole point, aside from racism, hurting poor people, and liking god and guns is that taxes are unfair. This is like a very slim majority of active NOW members thinking abortions should be legal. Or a slim majority of active NRA members favoring looser controls on firearms. So what? This is a disjointed, unorganized movement with ill defined goals. But the OP is trying to say that most don’t even want lower taxes, which isn’t true. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/6 "2010-04-14T20:26:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But the OP is trying to say that most don’t even want lower taxes, which isn’t true. Did you read my OP? Most say their taxes are fair. I thought that was interesting in light of one of the primary themes of the Tea Party. I made no untrue statements. I’ll thank you for not misstating my position. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/7 "2010-04-14T20:31:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So what? This is a disjointed, unorganized movement with ill defined goals. But the OP is trying to say that most don’t even want lower taxes, which isn’t true. Are you seriously trying to say that one of their ill defined goals isn’t that taxes are too high? What do you think they mean when they say their taxes are fair if not that they don’t even want lower taxes? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/8 "2010-04-14T20:32:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So what? This is a disjointed, unorganized movement with ill defined goals. Yes, it is. But its main focus is supposed to be taxes. > [@](#): > > But the OP is trying to say that most don’t even want lower taxes, which isn’t true. Depending on how you define the group, yes, it appears to be true. More than half of self-identified supporters said their taxes were fair. About 40 percent of activists, the people who were supposed to be whipped up into a fury, also think their taxes are fair. I do find that a little surprising, but I already thought taxes were a fig leaf. I see the Tea Party thing as a prolonged national tantrum. But even if you wouldn’t put it that way I think you’re right about the conclusion: it’s a disjointed movement that doesn’t really have goals. It’s a lot more about the psyche of these people than their political views. This is something we already knew. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/9 "2010-04-14T20:33:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Did you read my OP? Most say their taxes are fair. I thought that was interesting in light of one of the primary themes of the Tea Party. I made no untrue statements. > > I’ll thank you for not misstating my position. Most what? “Supporters” is a meaningless demographic. We have no idea if these people even no anything more about the tea partiers than that they are anit-Obama. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/10 "2010-04-14T20:37:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yes, it is. But its main focus is supposed to be taxes. I don’t even know about that. They seem to have been galvanized around the bailout-- ie, the spending part of the equation. From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Positions and goals > > The Tea Party Movement supports constitutionally limited government generally,[17][18] and more specifically is anti-stimulus,[19] anti-deficit,[20] anti-bailout.[21][22] Some demonstrators have also opposed federal support for the ailing automobile industry.[3] ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/11 "2010-04-14T20:39:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Most what? “Supporters” is a meaningless demographic. We have no idea if these people even no anything more about the tea partiers than that they are anit-Obama. We know they self-identify with the movement, however they define it. The activists would like to appeal to them. Yet they have chosen a theme which less than half personally identify with. I think that may shed some light on the potential for the influence of the Tea Party in the mid-terms. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/12 "2010-04-14T20:50:06Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > We know they self-identify with the movement, however they define it. The activists would like to appeal to them. Yet they have chosen a theme which less than half personally identify with. I think that may shed some light on the potential for the influence of the Tea Party in the mid-terms. I don’t think you have it righ. They’re mainly anti-Obama, anti-HCR, anti-stimulus, anti-bailout. I don’t really see them demanding tax cuts so much-- more like fear of tax increases, or policies they seem to think will raise taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/13 "2010-04-14T20:53:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t even know about that. They seem to have been galvanized around the bailout-- ie, the spending part of the equation. The bailout was approved in October 2008 and they didn’t get around to protesting until February 2009. They’re opposed to the bailout but they sure didn’t move in it very quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/14 "2010-04-14T20:55:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Most what? “Supporters” is a meaningless demographic. We have no idea if these people even no anything more about the tea partiers than that they are anit-Obama. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t think you have it righ. They’re mainly anti-Obama, anti-HCR, anti-stimulus, anti-bailout. I don’t really see them demanding tax cuts so much-- more like fear of tax increases, or policies they seem to think will raise taxes. So which is it? Do we have no idea what they know about the Tea Party, or are they mostly anti-Obama, etc? Seems like you can’t make up your mind… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/15 "2010-04-14T21:09:51Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So which is it? Do we have no idea what they know about the Tea Party, or are they mostly anti-Obama, etc? Seems like you can’t make up your mind… :rolleyes: The first is about the ill-defined “supporters”, and the second is about the better defined, but still disparate, “activists”. Two groups, two different characterizations. But I’ll also point at that you have not established that the tea party movement has tax cuts as its dominant theme. My cite about their positions and goals never even mentions tax cuts. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/16 "2010-04-14T21:15:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The bailout was approved in October 2008 and they didn’t get around to protesting until February 2009. They’re opposed to the bailout but they sure didn’t move in it very quickly. Well, you missed the anti-Obama part. And it was in Feb 09 that Rick Santelli made his famous comments about the mortgage bailouts. Again, from wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Rick Santelli, the “Rant Heard Round the World” > > On February 19, 2009,[37] in a broadcast from the floor of the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, CNBC Business News editor Rick Santelli criticized the government plan to refinance mortgages, which had just been announced the day before. He said that those plans were “promoting bad behavior”[52] by “subsidizing losers’ mortgages”. He suggested holding a tea party for traders to gather and dump the derivatives in the Chicago river on July 1. [53] [54][55] A number of the derivative traders around him cheered on his proposal, to the apparent amusement of the hosts in the studio. Video of Santelli’s ‘rant’ went viral after it received a “red siren” headline on the news aggregation website, Drudge Report.[56] > > In response to Santelli, websites such as [ChicagoTeaParty.com](http://ChicagoTeaParty.com) (registered in August 2008 by Chicago radio producer Zack Christenson) were live within twelve hours.[15] About 10 hours after Santelli’s remarks, [reTeaParty.com](http://reTeaParty.com) was bought to coordinate Tea Parties scheduled for July 4 and, as of March 4, was reported to be receiving 11,000 visitors a day.[15] > > According to The New Yorker writer Ben McGrath[37] and New York Times reporter Kate Zernike[44], this is where the movement was first inspired to coalesce under the collective banner of “Tea Party.” By the next day, guests on Fox News had already begun to mention this new “Tea Party.” [57] ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/17 "2010-04-14T21:17:27Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The bailout was approved in October 2008 and they didn’t get around to protesting until February 2009. They’re opposed to the bailout but they sure didn’t move in it very quickly. That was just a weird coincidence. It took them a while to get going, dontcha know \ ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/18 "2010-04-14T21:28:57Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > But I’ll also point at that you have not established that the tea party movement has tax cuts as its dominant theme. What, aside from their name? What do you recall about reason for the original Boston Tea Party? > [@](#): > > My cite about their positions and goals never even mentions tax cuts. Your Wikipedia cite? The one that says this?: > [@](#): > > The name “Tea Party” is a reference to the historic [Boston Tea Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party) of 1773, a protest by American colonists against taxation by the British government when the colonists had [no representation in the British Parliament](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxation_without_representation) that pre-dated but laid the ground for the [American Revolutionary War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Revolutionary_War).[[13]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#cite_note-FOXNews.com-12) Tea Party protests have sought to evoke similar images, slogans and themes to this [iconic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon) period in American history.[[14]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#cite_note-rebel-13)[[15]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#cite_note-cbs-14)[[16]](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#cite_note-15) It may also refer to the often-used acronym TEA Party, a play on a party slogan: “Taxed Enough Already.” Yeah, they clearly aren’t concerned with taxes. :rolleyes: Look, I’m not the one hanging his entire argument on a Wikipedia page, but you don’t get to selectively quote from a page and claim there is nothing about taxes there. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/19 "2010-04-14T21:36:29Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > What, aside from their name? What do you recall about reason for the original Boston Tea Party?Your Wikipedia cite? The one that says this?:Yeah, they clearly aren’t concerned with taxes. :rolleyes: Taxation without representation is not the same as tax cuts. Where’s the part where tea partiers claim their dominant theme is tax cuts? In fact, maybe this poll tells you why it isn’t. > [@](#): > > Look, I’m not the one hanging his entire argument on a Wikipedia page, but you don’t get to selectively quote from a page and claim there is nothing about taxes there. I didn’t say it wasn’t about taxes. I said they seem to be saying that Obama’s policies are going to increase spending and taxes. Again, not the same as calling for tax cuts as their dominant theme. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2010, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112/20 "2010-04-14T21:44:30Z")
Here’s the link to [Tea Party Nation’s web site](http://www.theteapartynation.com/). Pretty much says exactly what I was saying. I don’t see anything about tax cuts there. But it does have a lot to say about fear of tax increases: > [@](#): > > In 2009, the modern tea party movement got underway shortly after President Barack Obama took office and he and House Democrats subsequently passed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 without a single Republican vote. The stimulus act became law in February after three Senate Republicans – Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania (who has since become a Democrat) and Maine Sens. Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins – crossed party lines and voted in favor of it. > > The tea party protestors were outraged by the lack of bipartisanship and saw the $787 billion “emergency” expenditure as a demonstration of wasteful spending and an egregious growth of government. As word began to spread the following month that the Democrats planned to increase capital gains taxes, estate taxes, federal income taxes, and cigarettes taxes, conservatives began to organize a massive national protest for April 15 – when local, state and federal taxes are due. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-tea-party-supporters-say-their-taxes-are-fair/536112.md?page=2)