# Most thankless position in team sports? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [October 2, 2019, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135 "2019-10-02T03:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/21 "2019-10-02T17:23:57Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I mostly agree with you. Edgar Martinez was a DH for the Mariners and I used to pull in off the freeway to work on Edgar Martinez Drive. > > But at the same time, it took him forever to get a Hall of Fame nod because he was a DH and there’s a feeling that their contributions are limited. On the other hand, he **did** eventually get in. That was so stupid it took so long. I railed for years “DH is an actual position. Closer isn’t.” ---
**Author:** ![zimaane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a3d4f5/32.png) [@zimaane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zimaane)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/22 "2019-10-02T17:57:16Z")
In American football, being on the special teams squad is at the bottom of the ladder. You don’t play that often, and in most of the plays nothing interesting happens (especially with recent rule changes). When there is a return of a kick or punt, there are often injuries, because the teams start out far apart and run full speed toward each other. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/23 "2019-10-02T17:59:02Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Fun trivia: in the 100 year history of the Chicago Bears, the man who has played the most games as a Bear is [Patrick Mannelly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Mannelly), their long snapper from 1998 to 2013. Mannelly was awesome and he was beloved for his mullet, longevity, and personality; he is the exception to the rule in the case of long snappers, I think. I can’t remember who the long snapper is now (uh, some big guy with a beard) and I couldn’t tell you who did it before the Mann. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/24 "2019-10-02T18:09:10Z")
> [@zimaane](#): > > In American football, being on the special teams squad is at the bottom of the ladder. You don’t play that often, and in most of the plays nothing interesting happens (especially with recent rule changes). When there is a return of a kick or punt, there are often injuries, because the teams start out far apart and run full speed toward each other. That’s true, especially if you’re on the return team, but not the returner. You pretty much only get noticed when the return gets called back because you committed a hold. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/25 "2019-10-02T18:14:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Guards on the other hand aren’t ignored, heck the performance and health of them are a big deal on every team. Getting a good guard is a huge deal and they can be the star of a play. I’ve seen highlight reels of good guard play before. I can tell you who the guards are on my team (Iupati who replaced Sweezy in the offseason and Fluker) and even their backup (Pocic). Steve Hutchinson was a guard and is a legend around here, even though he hasn’t played here for 15 years. They aren’t at all unappreciated, they’re a huge deal. In general, offensive line positions are more fungible than you might think- it’s not uncommon in college or the pros for guys to shift around when needed. Guards aren’t underappreciated; they are theoretically more mobile than your centers and tackles, and get to pull (pull back and run out to the side) to block on wide run plays. They’re also usually involved with counter and trap plays pretty heavily. Centers generally are the QB of the offensive line since they have the best visibility; they call/adjust the blocking schemes depending on how the defense lines up. So maybe not too visible, but supremely important. My dream pro football job would be as a long-snapper for a good team; not many downs played, not many chances for injury (more FG/XP than punts), a long career, and league minimum salary (starts at $495 and goes up every year you play, to as much as 1.03 million with 10+ years experience. ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/26 "2019-10-02T18:50:54Z")
The cricket suggestions for WK and 1st change seam bowler are good, but I’m going to offer up Nightwatchman - a lower-order (ie, worse batter) player sent in late in a days play to prevent an actual batsman from getting out. Almost a no-win situation, Jack Leach’s Ashes heroics nonwithstanding, you have to face deliveries that ordinarily you’d be protected from, and if you do manage to survive you’re not expected to last long in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/27 "2019-10-02T19:37:14Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > … > I don’t know or care who the long snapper is. Sorry Bob or John or Fred or whatever your name is, thanks for not screwing up too much. The 49ers this season are on their FOURTH long snapper, and having only played three games so far. The first is still serving part of a 10-game suspension for performing enhancing drug violation (which is mind-numbing already), the second played two games then released for not being good enough (I guess), the third was a longtime veteran signed off the street who played one game then retired. The fourth is another longtime vet signed off the street that will play the next three games until the suspension is over. And to the point of this thread, nobody really noticed. (I kinda pay attention to who our long-snapper is out of nostalgia for Brian Jennings, the 49ers long snapper for about a ten year stretch a few years ago. He was a character, eventually [turning into](https://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/53167583.jpg) [our mascot](https://static.clubs.nfl.com/image/private/t_q-best/49ers/rndy5g19iq1chadxbkb6).) ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/28 "2019-10-02T20:23:53Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Here’s [a video from a few years ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YB-f3Lx1Nw), with Zak DeOssie, the Giants’ long snapper, describing the process. Zak’s rookie year was 2007; He and Eli Manning are the only two players still on the roster from either of the Giants’ Superbowl wins (2007 & 2011) and both were there for both. The only difference is that Zak is still a “starter.” Dan Dierdorf always used to say that if your son wants to play in the NFL, long snapper has the best job security by far. Zak’s father, Steve DeOssie, also won a Superbowl with the Giants in 1990, making them the only father-son duo to win Superbowls with the same team. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/29 "2019-10-02T20:56:33Z")
In football the offensive linemen are pretty much nameless. If they do their jobs correctly they never get the glory. Protect the QB so he can get off a pass then the QB/receiver are the heroes. Open a hole for the running back and the running back is the hero. You can have the best offensive linemen in the league but if the QB/receivers/RBs can’t get their jobs done then everyone will say how awful the offense is. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/30 "2019-10-02T21:28:17Z")
I’ll admit I do know one long snapper, Jon Dorenbos, who was a long snapper for the Philadelphia Eagles. He was a two-time Pro Bowler and has an honorary Super Bowl ring (he couldn’t play the year the Eagles won due to a heart condition, which is also why he retired). But I only know him because he’s a stage magician who appeared on America’s Got Talent, and was good enough to come in 3rd in the finals. He also appeared for AGT’s first “Champions” special and made it to the finale again though not making it in the top 5. So yeah, I know one guy but because he did something **else** that made him famous. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/31 "2019-10-02T21:32:36Z")
A not-so-thankless, but still relatively thankless position in football might be defensive nose tackle. Your job is to be a big body to stuff the run and occupy as much attention from the offensive linemen as you can. But the defensive glory usually goes to pass rushers or DBs. ---
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2019, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/32 "2019-10-02T23:24:19Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > \*\* > russian heel\*\*, have ever watched a hockey game? At the end, the players huddle around the goalie EVERY GAME to thank him after every game, WIN or LOSE. They also thank him multiple times during a game when he has to make a save to cover their mistakes. > I’ve played and coached hockey a long time, some kids WANT to be goalie for this reason alone. > > You do realize you just reinforced **dalej42** ’s point, right? > > Agreed. > > For American football, most of the special team guys are pretty thankless, especially kick-off or punt coverage. Often, they don’t even have to make a tackle, because of touchbacks, fair catches, out of bounds, etc… When they do make a tackle, their name is barely mentioned and the game just goes on. Yes I have watched a hockey game and never said it was not an important position. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/33 "2019-10-03T00:10:39Z")
Coxswain? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/34 "2019-10-06T03:17:25Z")
In American football, I think the whole punt team, especially the punter, are underappreciated, because they’re associated with failure; they’re only on the field because the offense hasn’t doesn’t its job. It’s just my impression, but it seems to me that football commentators and fans are more aware of the importance of the offensive line than in years past; I hear the guys on the sports-talk stations talking about the OL almost as much as the running backs or secondary. When I first started following football in the 80s, the only offensive lineman whose name I knew was Mike Webster. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/35 "2019-10-06T04:50:00Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > In American football, I think the whole punt team, especially the punter, are underappreciated, because they’re associated with failure; they’re only on the field because the offense hasn’t doesn’t its job. I don’t think that’s the case. A good punter is very appreciated; if you can pin the other team behind the 5 yard line you’re a hero. Fans don’t hold the punting against the punter; he’s not the guy that failed to convert the first down. Not to mention the punters that engage in trick plays, which isn’t common but isn’t rare either. Michael “Big Balls” Dickson is a rock star in Seattle, he was a Pro Bowler last year as a rookie and is talked about a lot and featured often in the media. Johnny Hekker is a big deal for the Rams. Punters are well-known and the good ones are celebrated. ---
**Author:** ![janis\_and\_c0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janis_and_c0/32/21_2.png) [@janis\_and\_c0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janis_and_c0)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/36 "2019-10-06T11:55:37Z")
Any position on the ‘Special Teams’ besides Return men. Miss a kick and your job is on the line, miss a tackle and its replayed endlessly, bad punt…get booed out of the stadium but very few cheers when they get it done. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/37 "2019-10-07T11:13:10Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > I don’t think that’s the case. A good punter is very appreciated; if you can pin the other team behind the 5 yard line you’re a hero. Fans don’t hold the punting against the punter; he’s not the guy that failed to convert the first down. Not to mention the punters that engage in trick plays, which isn’t common but isn’t rare either. > > Michael “Big Balls” Dickson is a rock star in Seattle, he was a Pro Bowler last year as a rookie and is talked about a lot and featured often in the media. Johnny Hekker is a big deal for the Rams. Punters are well-known and the good ones are celebrated. How many punters are in the Hall of Fame?\* Players, coaches, GMs, and knowledgeable fans know the value of a good punter, yes, but how often do you hear the sports-talk guys on the radio or ESPN discussing which kicker the Giants will start next week?I’m speaking \*ex cathedra \* from the seat of my pants, of course, but I don’t think Joe Sixpack down at the bar really cares about the punter. Until he screws up. \*The answer is one, by the way: Ray Guy. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/38 "2019-10-07T11:48:46Z")
> [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > Players, coaches, GMs, and knowledgeable fans know the value of a good punter, yes, but how often do you hear the sports-talk guys on the radio or ESPN discussing which kicker the Giants will start next week? Since you mention the Giants, Jeff Feagles was well known as the Giants punter for the last 7 years of his 20+ year career because he was the last of the coffin corner punters, and noticeably contributed to their 2007 season and Superbowl win. During that time Mike Golic used to talk about him relatively often on Mike & Mike in the morning because Golic and Feagles were teammates on the Eagles in the 80s. (!) But he was the outlier exception that proves your point. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/39 "2019-10-07T12:11:54Z")
I agree with offensive guards. They are probably the lowest paid starters on a football team, and they are subject to leg/knee injuries because they are constantly being rolled up on in the tangled mess known as the interior line. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135/40 "2019-10-07T13:07:03Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > I agree with offensive guards. They are probably the lowest paid starters on a football team, and they are subject to leg/knee injuries because they are constantly being rolled up on in the tangled mess known as the interior line. Not even close to lowest paid. > **[NFL Positional Payrolls](https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/positional/)** > > Browse NFL contracts, salaries, & cap hits by position. Unfortunately that doesn’t differentiate between starters and backups which might explain why the QB salary isn’t higher. On average guards are paid almost the same as a wide receiver. Offensive linemen in general are paid pretty well. Left tackle is the highest paid on the OL, with guard the lowest. Long snapper is basically the NFL equivalent of minimum wage. It sticks out like a sore thumb on the list. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-thankless-position-in-team-sports/841135.md?page=3)