# Most unenjoyably Pretentious Movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 24, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171 "2004-03-24T19:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/121 "2004-03-27T20:21:51Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > In my experience… What makes you think your experience is credible in the least? Why do you need to implicity bash people who like something you do not? ---
**Author:** ![erislover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71e660/32.png) [@erislover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erislover)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/122 "2004-03-27T20:41:02Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Speaking of David Lynch, [Lost Highway](http://imdb.com/title/tt0116922/)- I know there are people who enjoyed this movie, but I thought it was absolutely abysmal. The film-school “look what I can do” lingering close-ups of still objects, Robert Blake as a bi-local demon, and a plot that goes absolutely nowhere just don’t for me a great movie make. I’ve never understood the “there’s no plot” criticism of Lynch. For that matter, I’ve never felt like Lynch was trying to hit me over the head with film school. Different strokes, I guess. Is it ironic to have people lambasting so-called “pretentious” films by actually being pretentious? ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/123 "2004-03-27T21:12:58Z")
> [@dman](#): > > Shout me down, but I thought **The Big Lebowski** was too too-too. Maybe I just didn’t get it :dubious: > > .dan. Oh, now you’ve done it! I’m putting you on The List! :: glares :: 😃 I kid. Though I did love love love this movie. However, I’m a fairly easy sell: any movie that includes not only Steve Buscemi, but Sam Elliot as well wins a big thumbs up from me. Toss in the Cohen brothers and you’re just icing my cake, man! ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2004, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/124 "2004-03-27T23:31:03Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > Dissect the _film_, not the subtexts. Sorry about that. Actually, doesn’t change anything in my earlier post, except the first sentence, which should now read: Movies aren’t dissected to reveal the subtext, rather subtexts are constructed based on heuristics from life experience and analyses and applied onto the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/125 "2004-03-28T01:29:55Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > Actually, doesn’t change anything in my earlier post, except the first sentence, which should now read: Movies aren’t dissected to reveal the subtext, rather subtexts are constructed based on heuristics from life experience and analyses and applied onto the movie. No; I was speaking of two separate things: dissecting the film _and_ constructing the subtexts. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/126 "2004-03-28T01:33:50Z")
Just about anything by Stanley Kubrick after _Dr. Strangelove_. ---
**Author:** ![Mauvaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mauvaise/32/11084_2.png) [@Mauvaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mauvaise)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/127 "2004-03-28T01:43:12Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > Just about anything by Stanley Kubrick after _Dr. Strangelove_. And most especially _Eyes Wide Shut_! I can’t believe I failed to mention that in my original post. I must still be blocking this movie out. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/128 "2004-03-28T02:14:18Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > No; I was speaking of two separate things: dissecting the film _and_ constructing the subtexts. What’s the difference? ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/129 "2004-03-28T02:15:26Z")
> [@Dr. Rieux](#): > > Just about anything by Stanley Kubrick after _Dr. Strangelove_. This thread, already teetering on the edge of such :rolleyes: inducing troglodytic anti-intellectual drivel, has now taken a precipitous dive into uncharted territories of :rolleyes: -ism. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/130 "2004-03-28T02:16:57Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > What’s the difference? I was speaking of dissection in terms of plot, motivations, etc. Many people seem to be complaining about not being able to follow the film(s). After that, you can begin constructing the subtexts. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/131 "2004-03-28T02:21:03Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > I was speaking of dissection in terms of plot, motivations, etc. Many people seem to be complaining about not being able to follow the film(s). After that, you can begin constructing the subtexts. But those elements are what comprise the subtext. If you figure out the plot and motivations (atleast you think you have), the subtext is a relatively trivial follow-up. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/132 "2004-03-28T02:34:10Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by Risha > > > [@](#): > > > > I just flashed back to a movie I saw in college, on one of the cheap nights. Kids may be the worst movie I’ve ever seen - not the one I hated the most, because Last Tango In Paris takes that title - but the worst. It’s full of diliberately disgusting characters, who only exist in order for the director to try and prove that today’s children are all evil. It’s not in the least bit realistic. > > Unrealistic, huh? Why don’t you come live in my part of town, where kids as young as nine have been caught vandalising cars and pelting people’s houses with mud (and occasionally rocks), and tell them how unrealistically they’re acting? :rolleyes: I don’t doubt that some children have no authority figures, curse, smoke, destroy property, use drugs, search out virgins to seduce, carelessly spread AIDS, beat up strangers on the street with all of their friends while crowds of people watch, and so on and so forth. Very few find the time to fit all of that into one day. Come on, you don’t REALLY believe that the director wasn’t exaggerating just a little? Regardless, it still had nothing interesting to say, artistically. “Today’s kids are all scum. Aren’t you shocked. Isn’t it shocking and edgy of me to reveal this to you in this graphic and shocking film?” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/133 "2004-03-28T02:34:39Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > This thread, already teetering on the edge of such :rolleyes: inducing troglodytic anti-intellectual drivel, has now taken a precipitous dive into uncharted territories of :rolleyes: -ism. :rolleyes: Your mama eats snowshoes! ---
**Author:** ![Ilsa\_Lund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/a6a055/32.png) [@Ilsa\_Lund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ilsa_Lund)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/134 "2004-03-28T02:44:08Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > But those elements are what comprise the subtext. If you figure out the plot and motivations (atleast you think you have), the subtext is a relatively trivial follow-up. I disagree. Keeping up with who killed who and why doesn’t tell you much about the director’s message. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/135 "2004-03-28T02:54:03Z")
> [@Ilsa\_Lund](#): > > I disagree. Keeping up with who killed who and why doesn’t tell you much about the director’s message. That’s just the plot in a constrained sense (an event roster), you mentioned ‘motivations’ as well within the scope of dissection. Also, plot is “The pattern of events”. Imposing a pattern on events pretty much requires the foundation of a subtext. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/136 "2004-03-28T04:04:33Z")
[QUOTE=Dooku] I’ll probably get flensed for this, but I despised **The Cook, The Thief, His Wife, and Her Lover**. You’ll get no flensing from me, sir, just a hearty AMEN. This is my most hated, least favorite “good” movie. I loathed it on an epic level. Pretentious doesn’t begin to describe it. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/137 "2004-03-28T04:25:29Z")
> [@II Gyan II](#): > > But those elements are what [comprise](http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=comprise) the subtext. . . . I don’t think that word means what you think it means. ---
**Author:** ![sleeping](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@sleeping](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeping)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/138 "2004-03-28T04:31:26Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > I’ll add my own, although it’s not exactly art house: the characters is Party Monster were so amused with themselves we turned it off after 10 minutes. I think they were _supposed_ to be amused with themselves, but I can certainly see how someone wouldn’t like the movie. After hearing about it, I was sure it would be great but after the first hour it got kind of annoying. There were several moments throughout the film during which I cringed at the crappy writing and many more scenes involving painfully inadequate acting (especially from Macaulay Culkin). But I didn’t think it was pretentious–there was no hidden meaning; it was just poorly done. Nor do I regret seeing it (it just isn’t deserving of any praise). ---
**Author:** ![Greyson3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/258eb7/32.png) [@Greyson3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Greyson3)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/139 "2004-03-28T04:35:48Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I don’t think that word means what you think it means. Good christ, this thread is the most hilariously awful thing I’ve seen in quite some time. You are a funny guy, lissener. Don’t ever change. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171/140 "2004-03-28T04:48:09Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > I don’t think that word means what you think it means. What does it mean, then? The linked entry indicates that usage of ‘comprise’ as “A, B, C comprise Z” is a _usage problem_, although one which is less objected to, nowadays. Fine, I’ll reverse the original statement to “Subtext is comprised of plots, motivations…etc” where ‘comprise’ is understood as 3: _compose_, from the Wordnet section. Sheesh. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-unenjoyably-pretentious-movies/236171.md?page=8)