# Most violent cities in USA **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839 "2013-01-11T08:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/41 "2013-01-12T02:24:17Z")
I must be a cowardly traveler-- my Violent City score is lower than my Erdös-Bacon Number. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/42 "2013-01-12T02:56:08Z")
St. Louis crime is just based on St. Louis _city_ but the county is so huge…it’s a bit of a distortion. I don’t live too far from the city but I am definitely in the county. The majority of violent crime in the STL area happens in the city limits, not in the county. County has plenty of property crime, vehicle theft, etc in certain areas…but you don’t see very many murders. If the city proper wasn’t so small, we’d fall out of the top of these lists fast, I reckon. The county is around a million people or so and the city only 300-something thousand? Of course, I don’t know if we are the only city like this, with our “city” being only a tiny part of the metro area, but it gives us a bad rap and it’s a bummer. A lot of the crime is gang/drug related too, so stay away from all that, and there’s not a huge chance of being popped, probably. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/43 "2013-01-12T03:54:15Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Who’s the biggest badass here? > 1 point if you’ve been to the city, 2 points if you’ve been to the city within the past year, 5 points if you currently live in the city. Projecting ahead to the end of the month, after I make my trip, I’ll have 17 points. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/44 "2013-01-12T04:04:46Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Who’s the biggest badass here? > 1 point if you’ve been to the city, 2 points if you’ve been to the city within the past year, 5 points if you currently live in the city. > > **1. Flint, MI - 2337 violent crimes per 100,000 people** - 1 > **2. Detroit, MI - 2137 violent crimes per 100,000 people** - 2 > **3. St. Louis, MO - 1857 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 1 > 4. Oakland, CA - 1683 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 2 > 5. Memphis, TN - 1584 violent crimes per 100,000 people**- 2 > 6. Little Rock, AR - 1490 violent crimes per 100,000 people > 7. Birmingham, AL - 1483 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 1 > **8. Atlanta, GA - 1433 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 1 > 9. Baltimore, MD - 1417 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 2 > 10. Stockton, CA - 1408 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 2 > 11. Rockford, IL - 1373 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 1 > 12. Cleveland, OH - 1366 violent crimes per 100,000 people**- 1 > 13. New Haven, CT - 1344 violent crimes per 100,000 people > 14. Harford, CT - 1311 violent crimes per 100,000 people > 15. Buffalo, NY - 1238 violent crimes per 100,000 people > **16. Kansas City, MO - 1200 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 1 > 17. Miami, FL - 1198 violent crimes per 100,000 people- 2 > 18. Philadelphia, PA - 1193 violent crimes per 100,000 people**- 1 > 19. Nashville, TN - 1181 violent crimes per 100,000 people > **20. Newark, NJ - 1166 violent crimes per 100,000 people** - 1 > > I got 21 points. 1 point! Woohoo! ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/45 "2013-01-12T05:27:29Z")
Eh, I lived in Detroit for five years and the only time I felt unsafe was the time I flipped off a bad driver and he practically stopped on a busy street to curse at me. Most crime happens to criminals. ---
**Author:** ![AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AboutAsWeirdAsYouCanGet)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2013, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/46 "2013-01-12T10:18:01Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > Most crime happens to criminals. or domestic violence victims…but yeah, most murders aren’t random drive by massarces… ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/47 "2013-01-14T02:20:48Z")
30 points - yikes. I must be a Billy Badass… I travel to STL regularly and based on this thread I’ll change where I usually stay. (Thanks, Jerry) Instead of along I-70 I’ll stay along I-64. That way, when I go into downtown I won’t be along 70. I have wandered into E STL, just poking around. Want to go to Cahokia Mounds sometime soon. I hear that’s interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/48 "2013-01-14T03:15:55Z")
> [@echo7tango](#): > > Want to go to Cahokia Mounds sometime soon. I hear that’s interesting. It is very interesting. Definitely worth going. ---
**Author:** ![lost4life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@lost4life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lost4life)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/49 "2013-01-14T14:07:13Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > We’re trying to build a bridge for Detroit, but the pubbies have been opposed. It’s not often I stick up for Republicans, but in this case, it was very specific Republicans and mostly the Moroun family, who are a special kind of evil. The Republican governor supported it, and it did get approval this past election (this was actually a fight, a free friggin’ bridge from Canada!). ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/50 "2013-01-14T16:14:26Z")
Well, Maroun family and Tea Party Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2013, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/51 "2013-01-14T17:13:53Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > What crimes do they officially designate as violent crime for this statistic? I think [this](http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/preliminary-semiannual-uniform-crime-report-january-june-2012) is the report from the FBI that **Little Nemo** was referencing. Yeah, it only covers the first 6 months of 2012, but I’m not surprised they haven’t processed July-December yet. Anyway, from the link, the FBI’s definition of “violent crime” is: > [@](#): > > The violent crime category includes murder, forcible rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. I don’t know if they’re working off of convictions, indictments, police reports, or some amalgamation of the three. “Crimes brought to their attention” makes it sound like they’re working off of complaints and police reports, but I don’t know for certain. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/52 "2013-01-16T00:26:24Z")
I wonder if there is a correlation between how “ugly” an area of a city is and the crime rate. I realize ugly is subjective but perhaps an objective, working definition could be created. Maybe a study could use metrics such as trees per square mile, amount of trash and buildings in poor repair. Or maybe the ugly aesthetics are just a symptom of the poverty, which is the prime motivator for crime in the area. Still, I would imagine that how a place looks has some kind of psychological effect on the mindsets and expectations of behavior from the populace. I wonder, if there was a concentrated effort to clean up these places and increase police presence like they did in NY City, whether that would have a positive effect. Or is it just a matter of socioeconomics only. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/53 "2013-01-16T00:32:50Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > I wonder if there is a correlation between how “ugly” an area of a city is and the crime rate. > > I realize ugly is subjective but perhaps an objective, working definition could be created. Maybe a study could use metrics such as trees per square mile, amount of trash and buildings in poor repair. > > Or maybe the ugly aesthetics are just a symptom of the poverty, which is the prime motivator for crime in the area. > > Still, I would imagine that how a place looks has some kind of psychological effect on the mindsets and expectations of behavior from the populace. > > I wonder, if there was a concentrated effort to clean up these places and increase police presence like they did in NY City, whether that would have a positive effect. > > Or is it just a matter of socioeconomics only. Well yes, you are talking about the broken windows theory. > **[Broken windows theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_windows_theory)** > > In criminology, the broken windows theory states that visible signs of crime, antisocial behavior and civil disorder create an urban environment that encourages further crime and disorder, including serious crimes. The theory suggests that policing methods that target minor crimes, such as vandalism, loitering, public drinking and fare evasion, help to create an atmosphere of order and lawfulness. > The theory was introduced in a 1982 article by conservative think tanks social scientists James Q. ... > [@](#): > > The broken windows theory is a criminological theory of the norm-setting and signaling effect of urban disorder and vandalism on additional crime and anti-social behavior. The theory states that maintaining and monitoring urban environments in a well-ordered condition may stop further vandalism and escalation into more serious crime. > > The theory was introduced in a 1982 article by social scientists James Q. Wilson and George L. Kelling. Since then it has been subject to great debate both within the social sciences and in the public sphere. The theory has been used as a motivation for several reforms in criminal policy. > > The broken windows theory has received support from several empirical studies. At the same time it has also been the subject of a large body of criticism. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2013, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/54 "2013-01-16T01:13:52Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > Or maybe the ugly aesthetics are just a symptom of the poverty, which is the prime motivator for crime in the area. > > Still, I would imagine that how a place looks has some kind of psychological effect on the mindsets and expectations of behavior from the populace. > > I wonder, if there was a concentrated effort to clean up these places That is your basic vicious cycle. Poor areas become ugly, and cities eventually give up. A case in point here in Little Rock; vandals were breaking light bulbs in ornamental lamp posts on a Roosevelt Road bridge, and the city eventually gave up repairing them. Ugly, abandoned areas attract criminals, and things go to hell. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/55 "2013-01-17T20:59:36Z")
About a year or two back the grandparents took us on a drive through the old neighborhood in Flint where they used to live 60+ years ago, and it was horrifically sad what’s become of the area. A lot of the houses were burned to the ground, and the ones that weren’t looked like crack houses or worse. And even the school my mom went to for kindergarten (and walked there and back by herself, that’s how safe things were back then) had recently been burned down. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/56 "2013-01-17T21:06:59Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > About a year or two back the grandparents took us on a drive through the old neighborhood in Flint where they used to live 60+ years ago, and it was horrifically sad what’s become of the area. A lot of the houses were burned to the ground, and the ones that weren’t looked like crack houses or worse. And even the school my mom went to for kindergarten (and walked there and back by herself, that’s how safe things were back then) had recently been burned down. Yes…I haven’t lived in the area that long but even in the eleven years I’ve been here I’ve seen some neighborhoods visibly declineand I’ve3 heard repoprts and seen photos of what it was like 30+ years ago. It’s very sad. I don’t think people who have never seen blighted rust-belt cities like Flint can comprehend how bad it is. Although there’s lots of “ruin porn” showing Detroit, Flint and similar cities on YouTube. On the other hand, there is also a lot of fairly passionate grass-roots activism in cities like Flint; something you don’t see in more affluent cities where people take everything for granted. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/57 "2013-01-18T02:56:03Z")
I’m surprised Cabot Cove isn’t on the list, unless perhaps the low rate of non-murder violence keeps the average down. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/58 "2013-01-19T17:53:52Z")
Can we expect to see new American crime dramas set in these previously ignored cities ? Or maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/59 "2013-01-19T18:10:22Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > Can we expect to see new American crime dramas set in these previously ignored cities ? > > Or maybe not. _Michigan Five-O_? I’m doubting it. ---
**Author:** ![chiroptera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@chiroptera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chiroptera)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839/60 "2013-01-19T19:18:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > _Michigan Five-O_? I’m doubting it. _Flint Five-O_ has a ring to it. Although there’s a shortage of bikini-clad, tanned, buff babes and dudes around here. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/most-violent-cities-in-usa/646839.md?page=4)