# Mother beating child video - Enough Already! **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 24, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371 "2002-09-24T00:41:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/1 "2002-09-24T00:41:04Z")
Okay, it turns out that this woman has no history of child abuse and the child sustained no injuries. These two facts are immensely **more** important than anything you see in that video. So can everyone please just accept that this is a case where the videotape looked a whole lot worse than it actually was and can we all just get on with our lives!!! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/2 "2002-09-24T00:42:24Z")
Quiet, they are showing the video again!! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/3 "2002-09-24T00:47:44Z")
Wait, sorry, thought this was the pit (D’oh!!). Serious answer: The repeated showings of the videos cheapens the event, just as the repeasted showings of the WTC attacks cheapens the loss of life. Now, i am bring up the WTC just as a point of reference, i know the deaths of 3000 does not compare to a child being beaten, but the underlying theme of cheapening still applies. The tape itself is shocking, but good ratings points. A better comparison i guess would be the gassing of the dog video CNN kept rerunning recently (which i refused to watch), purely for ratings points since it is so terrible. Hopefully, some new stupid news story will surface, which will for better or for worse make the news outlets pay less attention to this one. ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/4 "2002-09-24T02:29:24Z")
What I saw on that videotape, if it is indeed all of it, lasted about 10 seconds or so. Kid got into car, mother slapped her a few times, then the mother drew back, put the kid in the back seat, slapped a couple more times, then stopped. Heck, I think the second time 'round might have just been shaking from the looks of it, and it even looks as if the mother might just have been wrestling with a child seat to get it into place. That this was considered so bad, especially in light of no prior history of abuse shown, that the child had to be taken away is ridiculous. I saw kids in the neighborhood get whapped worse than that, in my presence, and nobody ever thought of taking those kids away. I can’t understand what segment of society is so interested in seeing this video. I finally saw it today, after reading in the paper a little about it. I guess it’s not an everyday sight, but it hardly has the shock value I was expecting after how much that got built up. Don’t get me wrong, that mom’s behaviour would cross the line I’d set for myself, I’d stop with spankings. Still, it isn’t that shocking to me, especially in the light of the fact that the mother is a gypsy. In my mind, if no injury occurs, different cultures can raise their kids however they like. So I give the **RexDart** “get over it” stamp of disapproval to the media obsession with this video. There are plenty of kids getting repeatedly abused much more violently than this, in ways that actually injure the child (which this didn’t), so I don’t think a continuing coverage of this case is all that important. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/5 "2002-09-24T22:07:49Z")
While I can’t take seriously the idea we should “get over” what looked like child abuse, I also think this entire affair SHOULD have been handled quietly by the local authorities (the local police, the local Child Welfare bureau, whatever local agency has jurisdiction in such matters). They could have and should have determined quickly if there was genuine abuse. If so, the mother could and should have been punished appropriately. If not, she and her child could have been sent home quietly. Either way, there is no justification for turning this into headline news and talk show fodder all over America. There is no reason we should all know the accused mother’s name, or that she’s an “Irish Traveller.” She should have been investigated (and, if necessary, punished) by the correct local authorities, and however they resolved the case, that should have been the end of it. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2002, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/6 "2002-09-24T23:57:55Z")
If the debate is, “Let it go”, then yes, I agree, it’s time to move on to something else. It looks like it’s time for the media to start showing us American children trapped in Ivory Coast… :rolleyes: But I do wanna point out a couple of things. Astorian, the local authorities _did_ try to handle it themselves for a week, but the mother took off with the child and was hidden by other family members, who were reportedly uncooperative with the local authorities. Hence their finally releasing her name and photo to the national media. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/19/video.child.beating/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/19/video.child.beating/index.html) > [@](#): > > Police search for woman taped allegedly beating child > Friday, September 20, 2002 Posted: 12:50 PM EDT (1650 GMT) > > SOUTH BEND, Indiana (CNN) – Police have appealed to the public for help in finding a woman caught on videotape allegedly beating her daughter in the back of a vehicle > > \< snip \> > > Using the videotape, police traced the vehicle to the woman’s family and impounded it. > > Jones said family members told her the girl was one of the woman’s three children. But the woman’s relatives have been “less than cooperative” in helping authorities locate the girl, Jones said. > > “Some family members have been shown the videotape and still have not been helpful in the case,” Jones said, adding that Gorman will face felony battery charges and her family could face charges as well if they are hiding her. > > \< snip \> > > Samp said the family members told authorities the woman had left the state, but he was not persuaded. “My hunch is that she’s still here. That’s why we’re continuing to pursue this so vigorously.” > > “We believe that the victim is with the suspect, and the suspect is trying to elude apprehension at this time. So she’s being hid out by family members so that she won’t face any type of criminal problems,” Samp said. The local authorities started searching for her on September 13, when the incident happened, and she didn’t turn herself in until Saturday the 21st, when it was clear that with the entire national media, not to mention the Internet, looking for her, there was no place to hide. [http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/21/video.child.beating/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/Midwest/09/21/video.child.beating/index.html) > [@](#): > > Gorman Toogood, 25, turned herself into to the Mishawaka Police Department Saturday, nine days after a department store’s surveillance camera recorded her apparently slapping and punching her daughter, Martha, inside a sport utility vehicle… > > Police have been searching for her since Sept. 13, when the incident was caught on tape. During Saturday’s news conference, Gorman Toogood’s hair had apparently been dyed dark brown from the light blonde color it was in the videotape. > > After several days of fruitless search for the girl and her mother, authorities gave the tape to the news media, and it began airing nationwide Thursday. Only then did Gorman Toogood, through her lawyer, begin discussing surrendering with Toth’s office. Toth said no deals were made to encourage her to surrender. So was the Mishawaka Police Department just supposed to shrug and say, “Welp, _we_ cain’t find her, mebbe she’ll turn up somewheres else…”? And I just wanna say to all you heartless people here :rolleyes: , that what I saw on tape was simply “cruelty”, no matter how “hard” the beating may have been. Sure, the kid didn’t sustain a broken nose, or smashed cheekbones, or bruises, but what I saw was a mother being deliberately “cruel”, there’s no other word for it, to a four-year-old child. She made sure nobody was watching, and then she slapped her kid around. Pinching would have accomplished the same thing, and I’ll bet you dollars to donuts that Maddie pinches her kids sometimes, too. Hurting and frightening her child made Madelyne feel better. That’s unconscionable, in my book. Any child has the right to expect Mommy’s hands to be helping, not hurting, no matter whether it’s only “slapping” and not “beating”. Normal Mothers Don’t Try To Hurt Or Frighten Their Kids. Period. The whole thing shows a level of immaturity on the part of Madelyne that puts her right at the top of my “should never have been issued ovaries” list. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/7 "2002-09-25T00:30:51Z")
**DDG** your posts are almost always among the best on this board, but this time saying that “pinches” would have done a better job has me baffled. I don’t condone what the woman did, but I understand her emotions. Hell that could have been me, but I would have been slapping the back of the kids car seat or whatever to vent my frustration (not the child.) We couldn’t see, maybe that is what she was doing (she admitted hitting the child, though). But pinching? That could leave bruises and therefore wouldn’t it be just as violent? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/8 "2002-09-25T01:10:00Z")
Of course, it’s not unreasonable for the mother to have been scared. Now, she’s already been tried and convicted in the court of public opinion (okay, tired phrase, but true), and her child has **already** been taken away. ---
**Author:** ![Skid\_Row](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Skid\_Row](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skid_Row)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/9 "2002-09-25T02:06:42Z")
Are you people serious? She’s a criminal. Period. She has abused the kid before. This is evidenced by how she wasn’t hurriedly walking to the SUV and wailing away before the kid got in. She looked around to make sure there were no witnesses. She knew what she was doing and what she was about to do. Great Ceasars Ghost! She should be killed. We have the death penalty in this country and I say she should get it. She’s not a monster. She’s worse. There is no help for her. I wonder if she ever fights in her own weight class? I’d love to have a shot at her. ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/10 "2002-09-25T02:18:49Z")
> [@](#): > > We have the death penalty in this country and I say she should get it. :rolleyes: Skid Row is the judge, jury and executioner for the court of public opinion. WTF, yourself. Sheesh! ---
**Author:** ![Skid\_Row](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Skid\_Row](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skid_Row)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/11 "2002-09-25T02:24:14Z")
Of COURSE she shouldn’t get the death penalty, for whiz sakes. I was merely attempting to expose how ridiculous those who were attempting to defendant this idiot sounded. My humble apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/12 "2002-09-25T13:29:39Z")
Overheard on the radio last eve: **"This has to be driving Bob Greene crazy!"** ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/13 "2002-09-25T15:23:03Z")
The endless repetition of this video does seem to serve a purpose. This sort of behavior is, of course, happening every day in every corner of America, indeed everywhere in the world. Everyone will agree that child abuse is a bad thing but may not agree with just what constitutes child abuse. Here we have a very clear example of something that crosses the line - at least in the eyes of the media and the public at large. This video can help us all establish a certain threshold for defining child abuse. We can point to this video and say that this kind of behavior and worse constitutes child abuse, so if you are a parent and think that this represents reasonable discipline, you are wrong. Not everyone watches CNN as diligently as us Dopers, so we may need to just brace ourselves for the ongoing repetition while the message saturates the general public. ---
**Author:** ![greck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7ab992/32.png) [@greck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greck)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/14 "2002-09-25T19:17:46Z")
not only what norton said, but maybe some abusive parent will see the video and identify with it. maybe seek help distasteful as it may be, shunning it from view is even more so ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/15 "2002-09-25T19:28:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skid Row \* > She’s a criminal. Period. She has abused the kid before. This is evidenced by how she wasn’t hurriedly walking to the SUV and wailing away before the kid got in. She looked around to make sure there were no witnesses. She knew what she was doing and what she was about to do. I’m not going to take a stand one way or the other. I think it’s wrong to hit children, but as far as what happens to the woman - that’s a matter for the authorities. But Skid Row, I see absolutely no logical relation between your assertion that she “has abused the kid before”, and your evidence that ostensibly “proves” it. ---
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2002, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/16 "2002-09-25T19:31:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hail Ants \* > \*\*Okay, it turns out that this woman has no history of child abuse and the child sustained no injuries. These two facts are immensely **more** important than anything you see in that video. > > \*\* Would it be more accurate to say that she has no history of **reported** child abuse? Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2002, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/17 "2002-09-26T22:52:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Would it be more accurate to say that she has no history of reported child abuse? Well, we are all **supposed** to be presumed innocent. My biggest complaint is with the news media showing this so much. Here we are, sitting at home, when all of a sudden, wham!, there’s this tape of a kid being beaten playing on the TV or web site. It makes it impossible to reacte rationally rather than just emotionally, and that’s a huge mistake. And the media outlets know this! There is absolutely **no** national news story here! There’s nothing but a piece of sensational (and misleading) video tape. ---
**Author:** ![burundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ec8ea/32.png) [@burundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burundi)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/18 "2002-09-27T15:15:28Z")
**Hail Ants** , how was the tape misleading? While I agree that the mother should be tried in court, her actions on the video are beyond the pale for most people. She didn’t give her daughter a spanking; she repeatedly slapped and shook a four year old child. It may have been the first time she slapped her daughter. That doesn’t make it acceptable. You’re right–this kind of stuff does produce a visceral reaction in most people. What, in your view, would be rational reaction to seeing an adult slap around a four year old? ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/19 "2002-09-29T01:09:15Z")
I saw the video three times, on local stations. Each time the reporter warned of what the story was about and what was in the video. I found the act to be disturbing, not the presentation. I think it could be a appropiate subject for discussion with one’s own children. The media didn’t beat the shit out of the child, the mother did. Why attack the messenger? Easy, popular target perhaps? Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2002, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371/20 "2002-09-29T22:29:23Z")
Because the mother did not “beat the shit out of” that child. She slapped her 15 or 20 times. People are ridiculously oversensative about this. And the tape is misleading because it appears to show the mother doing this totally out of the blue. Regardless of whether you think she over-reacted to the child being an unruly brat in the toy store, there’s a huge difference between the mother losing her temper because of the kid doing that and the mother acting like a psycho and whaling on her for no reason at all. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-beating-child-video-enough-already/129371.md?page=2)