# "Mother of all Harlots" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 2, 2005, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981 "2005-02-02T14:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/21 "2005-02-04T02:25:52Z")
> [@Biffy the Elephant Shrew](#): > > I should think the matter would be easy to settle. Just go find any harlot, and ask who her mother is. I bet she won’t say “The Roman Catholic Church.” Thank you, **Biffy**! 🙂 How to deal with this is quite simple. Look at the person with a look of concern. Fold your hands. Ask, “Where in the Word of God is that written? Please, could you tell me which book, which chapter, which verse?” I suspect anyone who makes such a claim also commits bibliolatry; they’d be only too happy to oblige you. If they point it out, aske them how it applies to the Catholic Church. Also, ask them: “Does this apply to non-Roman Catholics, such as Eastern Rite Christians?” “Does this apply to Orthodox Christians, who also believe in the _primer inter pares_ doctrine regarding the Roman See but view it as being out of orthodoxy, and who, despite the above, believe in the primacy of the Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople, dubbing it the New Rome?” “What about the United Nations, which sits upon many seas?” 🙂 WRS ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/22 "2005-02-04T03:56:18Z")
Interesting. I probably would have agreed with him on the grounds that Jesus (in my opinion) would have wanted the church to be a protector for those without protection on the edges of society and a guide to those who have lost their way. So yes, a mother of all harlots and a brother of all beggars. Upon further review, however, I see that’s not how he meant his initial comment. Could be a good interpretation to discuss with him, though. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/23 "2005-02-04T04:56:30Z")
> [@Sublight](#): > > Interesting. I probably would have agreed with him on the grounds that Jesus (in my opinion) would have wanted the church to be a protector for those without protection on the edges of society and a guide to those who have lost their way. So yes, a mother of all harlots and a brother of all beggars. > > Upon further review, however, I see that’s not how he meant his initial comment. Could be a good interpretation to discuss with him, though. I had not encountered that interpretation of “Mother of all Harlots” before. Very nice one, though. Why, yes, the Roman Church\* is, indeed, the mother of harlots. She is the mother of all sinners; the Church embraces all sinners to her bosom and pleads with Christ, her Bridegroom, to forgive them and aid them. She herself works with them, alongside them, and showers her love, prayers, and concern upon the harlots and beggars and sinners and poor and destitute and suffering. \*What is the Roman Church? The predominant Church in Rome is the Catholic Church. It is called the “Roman Catholic Church” by some, but this is technically inaccurate. The Catholic Church is made up of two rites: the Western/Latin/Roman Rite and the Eastern Rite. If one is speaking exclusively of the Western/Latin/Roman Rite of the Catholic Church, then perhaps “Roman Catholic” may be used. As it is, the proper designation is “Catholic.” After all, the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed speaks of “One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church,” not “One Holy, Catholic, Apostolic and Roman Church.” In the Apostle’s Creed, one refers to the “Holy Catholic Church” (sanctam eccliasiam catholicam), not “Holy Roman Catholic Church.” WRS ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/24 "2005-02-04T05:13:21Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > The Catholic Church is made up of two rites: the Western/Latin/Roman Rite and the Eastern Rite. There are six active rites in the Catholic church, the Latin, Alexandrian, Anitochene, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine Rites. The Latin is made up of three seperate liturgies, the Roman, the Ambrosian, and the Mozarabic. There are also two extinct liturgies, the Celtic and Gallic liturgies. There’s also an “Anglican Use” liturgy, for Anglican converts to Catholicism. ---
**Author:** ![WeRSauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f19dbf/32.png) [@WeRSauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WeRSauron)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/25 "2005-02-04T05:20:14Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > There are six active rites in the Catholic church, the Latin, Alexandrian, Anitochene, Armenian, Chaldean, and Byzantine Rites. The Latin is made up of three seperate liturgies, the Roman, the Ambrosian, and the Mozarabic. There are also two extinct liturgies, the Celtic and Gallic liturgies. There’s also an “Anglican Use” liturgy, for Anglican converts to Catholicism. I stand corrected. 🙂 Thank you, **Captain Amazing**. I greatly appreciate this knowledge! Is the Alexandrian Rite the Coptic Church or some other movement? WRS ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/26 "2005-02-04T14:16:18Z")
> [@WeRSauron](#): > > Is the Alexandrian Rite the Coptic Church or some other movement? No, entirely different entities – the Copts are one of the ancient “Oriental” Churches, not in communion with Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2005, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981/27 "2005-02-04T14:35:25Z")
Just thought it was funny to see the wording of the famous Saddam Hussein catchphrase creeping into this classic anti-Catholic slur. Of course, the Book of Revelations phrase is typically translated by “Mother of Harlots”, as in **Captain A** ’s cite. This “Mother of **All** Harlots” formulation seems to be one of the countless popular imitations of Hussein’s 1990 remark about “the mother of all battles”. [Word Maven’s article on “Mother of all…”](http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000822): > [@](#): > > The expression “the mother of all battles” can’t be understood by interpreting mother in the figurative senses ‘origin, source, prototype’. It’s actually a direct translation of the Arabic expression umm al-ma’arik, in which “mother of” is used in the figurative sense ‘major, greatest’, so it means ‘major battle’. The specific reference is probably to the battle of Qadisiya in the 7th century A.D., in which Islamic Arabs defeated the Sassanids, the ruling dynasty in Persia. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-of-all-harlots/287981.md?page=1)