# Mother seeks vegence for her son **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 28, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238 "2017-03-28T18:54:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/61 "2017-03-29T19:36:31Z")
Why are you all talking about Florida law and trying to apply it to the incident in the OP when the incident in the OP took place in North Carolina? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/62 "2017-03-29T19:39:01Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Why are you all talking about Florida law and trying to apply it to the incident in the OP when the incident in the OP took place in North Carolina? My excuse is that I trusted Bricker got it right. I don’t know what his excuse is. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/63 "2017-03-29T20:40:22Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > Why are you all talking about Florida law and trying to apply it to the incident in the OP when the incident in the OP took place in North Carolina? The folly of the parties involved in the story naturally made them think “gotta be Florida”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/64 "2017-03-29T20:59:47Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Well as long as you use the fireworks in compliance with the law you should be fine, if you light them and throw them into a flour factory you may have a problem. Is flour explosive? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/65 "2017-03-29T21:01:03Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > The mother seems to be one of those for whom her precious little baby can do no wrong. In my experience, every parent feels that way. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/66 "2017-03-29T21:02:24Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > But the _principle_ that one should be able to own their own property, and remain unmolested and unthreatened with harm over it _is_ worth killing over. An excellent point, Sir. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/67 "2017-03-29T21:03:07Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is flour explosive? > **[Dust explosion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion)** > > A dust explosion is the rapid combustion of fine particles suspended in the air within an enclosed location. Dust explosions can occur where any dispersed powdered combustible material is present in high-enough concentrations in the atmosphere or other oxidizing gaseous medium, such as pure oxygen. In cases when fuel plays the role of a combustible material, the explosion is known as a fuel-air explosion. > Dust explosions are a frequent hazard in coal mines, grain elevators and silos, and other i... ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/68 "2017-03-29T21:04:56Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is flour explosive? Yes, extremely but only when it is in the air. The tiny particles can interact with the oxygen very rapidly. Any open flame can cause a chain reaction. see [Dust explosion - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/69 "2017-03-29T21:07:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Is flour explosive? [Heck yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/70 "2017-03-29T21:10:34Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Pizza guys get all the chicks. Sometimes two or three at a time. I’ve seen movies. I literally can’t count the number of times this happened to me. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/71 "2017-03-29T21:15:57Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I literally can’t count the number of times this happened to me. I had no idea you were missing fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/72 "2017-03-29T21:16:43Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [Heck yes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion). [I expected this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU3GSbIzwm8) ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/73 "2017-03-29T21:19:00Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > SYG laws only allow deadly force in in situations where you are faced with an imminent threat to your own safety. > [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree. > > Florida Stat § 776.012(2): Back to the drawing board. Since we’re talking about NC (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > (b) The lawful occupant of a home, motor vehicle, or workplace is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily harm to another if both of the following apply: > (1) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of > unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a > home, motor vehicle, or workplace, or if that person had removed or was > attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the home, > motor vehicle, or workplace. > (2) The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an > unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or > had occurred. > **[GS\_14-51.2.pdf](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-51.2.pdf)** > > 102.73 KB > [@](#): > > However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat in any place he or she has the lawful right to be if either of the following applies: > (1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent > imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another > **[GS\_14-51.3.pdf](https://www.ncleg.gov/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/PDF/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-51.3.pdf)** > > 88.26 KB So it appears Machine Elf is basically correct (the fear of safety must be imminent death or serious bodily harm, and it can extend to that of another). Interestingly, according to the first statute, one is presumed to have held that fear if someone is or has unlawfully and forcible entered your home, motor vehicle, or workplace. Apparently in NC if a little old lady is breaking through your screen door with a nail file you can blow her away with a shotgun. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/74 "2017-03-29T21:55:53Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Yes, extremely but only when it is in the air. The tiny particles can interact with the oxygen very rapidly. Any open flame can cause a chain reaction. > > see [Dust explosion - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion) Well, hell. I’m off to find some M-80s and a silo. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/75 "2017-03-29T22:12:44Z")
It’s been a while but while researching a similar case in the same vein I found that in the United States using available crime statistics 10% of armed robberies where the victim doesn’t resist and complies involve either the death or serious injury of the victim and it goes up if you include sexual assault (it was harder to parse whether incidents were sexual assaults that involved robbery after the fact, or robberies that just happened to involve some sexual assault that wasn’t pre-planned) About 40% of robberies in the same definition involved any sort of injury though this includes minor non-hospitalization injuries and injuries that weren’t part of the robbers plan (like somebody tripping and falling upon initially seeing the robbers) Of course that was with googling and looking up definitions as an amateur so there’s all sorts of holes you can poke in it but as a very rough estimate basically means you got around a 10% chance of something major happens even if you fully comply so it’s up to individuals if that’s worth the risk to resist. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/76 "2017-03-29T22:39:02Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Apparently in NC if a little old lady is breaking through your screen door with a nail file you can blow her away with a shotgun. Do you think that that happens often? Also every ccw class I’ve been in, including one in NC, they make it clear that if the attacker is not a physical threat to the shooter then your argument that you feared for you life is much less likely to be accepted. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/77 "2017-03-29T22:50:56Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Do you think that that happens often? I’m going to guess that that particular scenario never happened. I’m commenting on what is allowed according to the statutes I cited. What you remember that someone told you in a class is irrelevant. From a NC law firm (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > A person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat in any place he or she has the lawful right to be if **either of the following applies:** > > You reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another; or > You are in your home, vehicle or workplace and that **the person against whom the defensive force was used was an unlawful intruder or was attempting to forcibly and unlawfully enter one of the above.** > **[Can You Stand Your Ground? Stand Your Ground Law NC](https://www.kirkkirklaw.com/legal-resources/can-you-stand-your-ground-in-north-carolina/)** > > What rights do North Carolina citizens have with "Stand your ground” laws? Kirk, Kirk, Howell, Cutler & Thomas review the NC law legalized on Dec 1, 2011. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/78 "2017-03-29T22:55:04Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I’m going to guess that that particular scenario never happened. I’m commenting on what is allowed according to the statutes I cited. What you remember that someone told you in a class is irrelevant. > > From a NC law firm (bolding mine): > [Can You Stand Your Ground? Stand Your Ground Law NC](http://www.kirkkirklaw.com/legal-resources/can-you-stand-your-ground-in-north-carolina/) You seem to be missing this part. **You reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.** If a 250 lbs. man tries to claim that he felt reasonable fear for his life from an 80 lbs. woman with a nail file the jury is likely to find his fear to not be very reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/79 "2017-03-29T22:59:12Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > You seem to be missing this part. **You reasonably believe that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another.** Nope, you missed the “or.” ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2017, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238/80 "2017-03-29T23:14:08Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Nope, you missed the “or.” Yes your right, my mistake. Maybe this is why grannies don’t often do home invasion robberies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-seeks-vegence-for-her-son/783238.md?page=5)