# Mother sets fire to her daughter's gloating rapist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363 "2009-02-25T14:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/301 "2009-03-01T13:48:33Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > You’re a little old granny? Oh lord, I feel terrible now . . . 😃 Hee…well of course, why else wouldn’t I care if I puddled into a pool of pee in a McDonald’s massacre? It was obvious you thought I was a big strong testosterone mess, which is why I thought I’d better kindly set you straight, challenging old ladies to prove their manhood isn’t really effective 😃 (But don’t feel too terribly bad, I’m a fairly new grandma, not quite ready for a walker yet!). > [@](#): > > But you did touch a nerve and I thought you were rude to presume the reactions of a stranger. I think he’s touched a nerve too, which is why he’s getting such resistance here. I’m not meaning to be rude ( I don’t think others are either), just to understand how this can possibly be. It really is mindboggling to some of us. Maybe others (and me) aren’t expressing it quite the way he wants, but I think it definitely touches a nerve to think that someone would actually stand there and allow fellow citizens to be gunned down. And I meant what I said about instinct, that wasn’t meant to be snarky, I truly believe that instinct causes people to react in ways they never could have imagined, despite what they believe their convictions to be. > [@](#): > > **MrDibble** has explained himself quite clearly and patiently several times and in return has had his courage and his morals put to question. After each of his answers someone new pops up and basically just says “I don’t believe you”. It’s taking a philosophical debate and turning it into a character debate, which is just stupid. And, yes, I know it’s the pit. I believe that it’s not that we don’t believe him, as in he’s lying, but we don’t believe it as in we’re baffled and again, are stunned that he’d allow murder when he opposes it so! > [@](#): > > And by the way if the extra “r” that you added to his username wasn’t a typo then you’re a little old granny with no class. Oh Lord, I could have sworn it was **Mr.Dribble** , you know, similar to a cat’s name? It’s not so much a typo as I thought that’s what it said in the first place! I scrolled back up, and sure enough it’s **DIbble** …siiighhhh, and I just got new readers too snort! ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/302 "2009-03-01T14:07:16Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > I, for one, don’t have a problem with MrDibble’s stance. He has not said he would do \*nothing \* if faced with the need to stop a violent serial killer or whatever. Yes, I understand that. The trouble is, there isn’t much BUT shoot to kill that a person can do to stop someone like this. If at all possible, I think most of us would try any other means, but if you’ve got a raging psycho, or a burgler blasting away, it’s not as if you’re going to have time to figure out a non-violent solution. Do people in this position really believe that there would be time, or that “talking it out” would be even remotely effective? Please. History shows that isn’t so likely in far too many cases. And you don’t know which will be which either. > [@](#): > > The chances of him being in a situation where he is faced with the choice of Kill This Psycho or 1, 000 People Die are miniscule to none. He has posted here about the violence he himself has suffered. So, outside of hypotheticals involving school massacres You’re right, the likelihood of him being in such a school shooting is very tiny, probably zero. The school shootings and other “gone postal” incidents themselves however, are hardly “hypothetical”, they’re pretty much a common frequent occurrence in today’s society. Just an aside re: your post above, why does it have to be “or 1000 people will die”? If a person is against murder and he/she condemns only one fellow citizen to death by inaction, it’s still killing. > [@](#): > > or timetravelling back to when Hitler was a 10 year boy, I don’t see a problem with him adopting this as his individual stance. I don’t agree with it, but paradoxically I know that if more people took on this philosophy of absolute non-violence the world would be a better place. Who posted the time-traveling post? I missed that one. Not to hijack, but that IS pretty idiotic…sheesh, of COURSE you wouldn’t kill a 10 year old, you’d remove him from his psychotic mother and raise him kindly and well. As to the “if more people were absolutely non-violent”? Well of course, in an ideal world, but that’s true of all of the world’s ills. Unfortunately, we live in the real world. Bottom line, the two of you and **MrDibble** are right in one thing, he’s unlikely to ever have to find out what he would really do. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/303 "2009-03-01T14:56:40Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Goodness, we’ve touched a bit of a nerve haven’t we? Just out of curiosity, why on earth would a reply to \*\*Mr.Dribble’s \*\* post set you off so? Or was it just a poor attempt to be funny? > > As to whether I’d end up in a puddle of my own pee? Possibly, possibly not, it wouldn’t bother me if I did, what else would anyone expect of a little old granny? The point is, no one really knows how instinct will takeover in a situation as dire as that. I suspect, based upon my encounters with bears, that I’d stand there nice and still and sing, like an idiot (good idea with bears, probably not so good with a psychotic human killer :D). I agree that survival instinct is very strong (and so does Mr. Dibble). It’s not that he lacks that instinct; he is _consciously_ choosing to fight the instinct harder than he’d fight to save his own life. It’s a decision that’s in keeping with who he is as a person. To take a person’s life, for any reason, will rob him of his innocence and self-worth, much the way a rape would take these things from some people. To avoid being (for lack of a better term) an incomplete human being, he chooses not to add to the ever-rising body count. This doesn’t mean he doesn’t care. It doesn’t mean he loves his family less than anyone else. It simply reflects his opinion regarding his place in the world and his duty to mankind. It’s not a numbers game (referring to how many lives would be saved if he’d just take one). It’s about his job on planet Earth. I know I took some liberties here…it’s just how I read his position. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/304 "2009-03-01T15:08:10Z")
I’d like to add that this is what I (and possibly _Ivan_) were talking about in that heated gun thread a couple weeks ago. Some of the pro-gun guys were saying they’d shoot an intruder. I was ridiculed for saying I would hide. There are many things a person can do that will keep them from engaging in violence. An alarm system, strong locks, _hiding_, fleeing. I would do all these things _plus_ not own a gun, to keep myself from crossing a line I don’t want to cross. As I said upthread, I don’t know if I could fight the instinct to kill (I hope I’d be able to). However, **Mr.Dibble** said he’s been tested and is confident he can follow through on his personal decision to never kill under any circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/305 "2009-03-01T15:12:10Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > If at all possible, I think most of us would try any other means, but if you’ve got a raging psycho, or a burgler blasting away, it’s not as if you’re going to have time to figure out a non-violent solution. I think this might be the crux of the bafflement. I’m pretty sure **MrDibble** has not advocated non-violence - just the utter wrongness of killing someone, in whatever circumstances. Speaking for myself I probably wouldn’t go as far as him. I acknowledge that if someone was holding a gun to my daughters head and I had a clear shot blah de blah, then I’d probably go for it. But for the vast majority, if not all of us, these situations are completely hypothetical. I also think that the taking of a life, even the life of a scumbag psycho, is regrettable in the extreme, and should be avoided if at all possible. I think far too many people think about when killing is justifiable - from the hypothetical black and white scenarios, through “just war”, to the idea that “he’s on my property so he’s lost the right to live” - and not enough time thinking about alternative ways to deal with the world’s problems. PS I’m sorry if I’ve offended you at all, you’re clearly not the person I thought you were. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/306 "2009-03-01T15:36:27Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > First off, please re-read my post. I state “can and often does…”. Which is not the same thing as stating or believing the intense and total devastation that the feminist article decries above. Secondly, I don’t believe that a woman has to be “told” this in order to feel it. After all, rape victims go back much further than modern psycho-babble. If the author of the feminist article (sorry I can’t see her name in the quote I snipped) is meaning to say that no woman “should” ever feel that way, she’s wrong. And while I understand and agree with some of her assessment of > (to paraphrase) “rape doesn’t equal stolen purity”. I don’t agree that it doesn’t equal stolen innocence. > > A person who is molested as a child never gets to have her first sexual experience (unless she is one of the ones who has somehow blocked it out) be completely firsthand and her actual FIRST experience. She’s already had sexual experiences with her molester, so her first lover’s penis is NOT the first she will see, his touch is not the first she will know and so on. She does not get to have the experience that should be hers, that of it being hers and her lover’s alone. That has been taken from her (unless she can be hypnotized and made to forget or something), that is a fact. > > Now, if the author is arguing how that necessarily effects one victim or another, then I agree it doesn’t have to be a lifelong total devastation, but to act as if it’s never going to negatively color the sexual part of a woman’s life and her romantic relationships is only one person’s opinion and not a correct one imho (eloquent yes but just an opinion). > > Sorry to give the impression that it’s something I came up with. I’ve seen and heard that type of mentality in casual conversation as well as in various things I’ve read (even on websites such as this one), and in the media. Though **of course** no one ever says the word “lesser”, by the subtext and the way they compare it to rape, it is clear that that’s what they mean. _Merely_ being molested, if a person is not penetrated, does not always carry the same weight with some in so-called polite society. I’m glad you’ve not experienced this sort of attitude, but it’s out there. > > Again, which I why I posted to **Kalhoun** that a person can’t just arbitrarily announce “X is usually worse than Y”. > > “Rape and political terror and domestic violence and child abuse and being beaten and being a POW all have a lot more in common than most people think.” This I agree with, but what **Kalhoun** is/was saying, that is but “beating is **usually** worse than rape” is very black and white, and sorry **Kalhoun** , I missed where you retracted this, does not jive with the sentiment in this quote. The word “usually” implies a greater percentage of one thing over the other. That’s not true in this case, and that was my point. I’m going to go ahead and assume based on your interpretation of the article that you didn’t read the article. The author makes it explicit that in some cases these feelings are natural and common, but by bracing the victim for them before she has even experienced them we are setting up a self-fulfilling prophecy. There is absolutely no need to be defensive, as I pretty explicitly disagreed with **Kalhoun** further up in the thread, and then made it clear in my response to you that I agreed with everything you’d said except the part I quoted. You’re defending parts of your post that I already agree with. You neither have to convince me of the real loss that being abused or raped can entail, and further you don’t have to convince me that child molestation isn’t as bad as rape. One of my earliest memories is testifying in court against the man I enthusiastically called Dad. As unfortunate a situation that was, it wasn’t nearly as traumatic as being later molested by my Mom’s 4th husband (who I also enthusiastically called Dad) for years, from the age of 10 to 17. I lost both fathers as a result of their actions, and in the second case my mother blamed me, accused me of lying about it, and admitted she knew about it all in a single breath. She spent the next several years still married to my abuser, trying to convince my doctors I was schizophrenic, and to this day is uncomfortable to bring up the subject because she’s ‘‘not ready’’ to talk about it. That at no point in my life was I forcibly penetrated really doesn’t enter into the utter grief and trauma I had to endure as a result of that situation and absolutely no one on this planet will ever convince me that what I went through isn’t ‘‘as bad’’ as rape. I read that article at a time when my life was pretty much falling apart for no good reason other than I couldn’t stop thinking about what a pathetic childhood I had. It gave me the strength to realize that a lot of my reactions were based on what I was told, by therapists and self-help books, I should be feeling. Reading that article gave me the strength to witness my own experience in my own way and realize that falling apart was not a necessity in healing from trauma. Neither did I have to view myself as irrevocably damaged or having had my innocence stolen. I was never innocent. I think it’s a stupid construct. So let’s just further emphasize that my second paragraph, the one all about predictive factors of trauma, was more of an academic lecture supporting your argument than a refutation of what you were saying. People can believe all they want about what traumas are worse than other traumas but the bottom line is that while we can make predictions about whether a given individual is more likely to develop PTSD (based on duration, repetition, external vs. interpersonal, involves prolonged captivity, etc), it’s still completely dependent on the individual. Though now I have to take another exception… there is little evidence that repressed memory is something that actually happens. A great deal of credibility was granted to it during the 70s/80s Sybil-era of psychology but the more research we do, the more it’s clear that, barring physical head trauma, this is either a nonexistent or at least extremely rare phenomenon. And even if it _were_ real, > [@](#): > > According to the American Psychological Association, it is not currently possible to distinguish a true repressed memory from a false one without corroborating evidence.[10] That someone can be ‘‘hypnotized and made to forget’’ a traumatic event is an even more troubling belief. Blaming the victim is such an easy thing for friends and family members to do if it means protecting the perpetrator – as Judith Herman points out, the choice is between remaining silent or taking an active stance against. Remaining silent is always the easiest choice. Culturally, societally, victims of child abuse and rape are up against a great Conspiracy of Silence… therefore we must take care to protect our credibility. Believing that hypnotism can resurface or repress memories is not in line with the goal of protecting credibility. Families have been destroyed due to the myth of repressed memories, and with every family that is destroyed this way, another true victim of child abuse is ignored, ostracized, and otherwise blanketed in that Conspiracy of Silence. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/307 "2009-03-01T17:34:54Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Who posted the time-traveling post? I missed that one. Not to hijack, but that IS pretty idiotic…sheesh, of COURSE you wouldn’t kill a 10 year old, you’d remove him from his psychotic mother and raise him kindly and well. It’s just one of those hypotheticals I hear a lot to test out how far someone could go, in terms of committing violence, if it were for the ‘greater good’. It is ridiculous as presumably if you have the opportunity to kill him you could kidnap him instead. Personally I worry about the alternate reality being even worse (Soviet Union takes over Western Europe and Stalin kills twice as many as Hitler did) but, yeah, hijack. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/308 "2009-03-01T18:00:30Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Yes, I understand that. The trouble is, there isn’t much BUT shoot to kill that a person can do to stop someone like this. If at all possible, I think most of us would try any other means, but if you’ve got a raging psycho, or a burgler blasting away, it’s not as if you’re going to have time to figure out a non-violent solution. Do people in this position really believe that there would be time, or that “talking it out” would be even remotely effective? I’ve successfully talked my way out of being shot in the head by a “raging psycho”(well, a guy high on drugs) once. And I’ve run from violent confrontation more than once. > [@](#): > > Please. History shows that isn’t so likely in far too many cases. And you don’t know which will be which either. I think if I developed a morality that said essentially “it is _sometimes_ OK to kill”, I’d suddenly find that that “sometimes” covers a lot more situations than I expected. Slippery slope and all that, I know, but I know how I am with latitude, personally. And we are discussing my _personal_ morality here. While I \*do \*consider it the ideal morality for everyone, I don’t proselytize it. I can perfectly understand why people advocate a “kill in self defence” morality. I don’t agree, but I understand. > [@](#): > > You’re right, the likelihood of him being in such a school shooting is very tiny, probably zero. However, the likelihood of me being a victim of gun crime or other violence is probably orders of magnitude greater than most other people on this board. I do, after all, live in South Africa, a very violent society. > [@](#): > > If a person is against murder and he/she condemns only one fellow citizen to death by inaction, it’s still killing. This twists the meaning of the word “killing” past all reason. I would not be the killer, the person doing the killing would. > [@](#): > > As to the “if more people were absolutely non-violent”? Well of course, in an ideal world, but that’s true of all of the world’s ills. Unfortunately, we live in the real world. I’m not as fatalistic as you. I believe the real world responds to our efforts to change it, and that complacency in the face of a violent society is just as much a moral choice as opposing it or actively participating in it are. > [@](#): > > Bottom line, the two of you and **MrDibble** are right in one thing, he’s unlikely to ever have to find out what he would really do. Like I said, I’ve found out on more than one occasion. I’ve lived in some pretty violent times, and in some decidedly dangerous places. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/309 "2009-03-01T18:06:25Z")
> [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](#): > > I’m pretty sure **MrDibble** has not advocated non-violence - just the utter wrongness of killing someone, in whatever circumstances. Well, I do advocate not taking any actions that could reasonably easily lead to death. I’m OK with restraining force, or tackling someone to the ground (yeah, I know, they _could_ knock their head and die…), I’m definitely against guns and knives and blunt instruments. I’m not exactly sure how I feel about Tazers or bare-fisted punching, but at the moment I wouldn’t use either. Pepper spray is OK in my book, and I’ve used it in the past to good effect. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/310 "2009-03-01T19:06:50Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > That someone can be ‘‘hypnotized and made to forget’’ a traumatic event is an even more troubling belief. Why would that be? Our mind forgets things that are useless to us all the time. If it’s possible to induce this loss of memory for events that are potentially psychologically damaging, why would it not be desirable? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/311 "2009-03-01T19:14:04Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Why would that be? > > Our mind forgets things that are useless to us all the time. If it’s possible to induce this loss of memory for events that are potentially psychologically damaging, why would it not be desirable? I was specifically stating that the belief _this is currently possible with hypnotism_ is troubling, because it’s not currently possible. You can’t use hypnotism to suppress or surface traumatic memory. The idea that you can is quackery. The implications of assuming that one would be better off without traumatic memory is another ball of wax altogether, and perhaps better suited for another thread. I for one consider myself extremely fortunate to have had the experiences I did. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/312 "2009-03-01T19:28:37Z")
> [@olivesmarch4th](#): > > I was specifically stating that the belief _this is currently possible with hypnotism_ is troubling, because it’s not currently possible. You can’t use hypnotism to suppress or surface traumatic memory. The idea that you can is quackery. [Oh?](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=hypnosis-memory-brain) ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/313 "2009-03-01T19:44:20Z")
**Q.E.D.** , it seems to me that your own cite is supporting **Olives** position: > [@linked article](#): > > High hypnotizable people with PHA typically show impaired explicit memory, or difficulty consciously recalling events or material targeted by the suggestion, and a dissociation between implicit and explicit memory, **so that even though they can’t recall the forgotten information it continues to influence their behavior, thoughts and actions.** Emphasis added If a suppressed memory is still affecting learned behaviors, and associated memories, it’s not what I’d consider to have been usefully suppressed for any kind of therapeutic definition. It may be a tool for therapy, and allow the behaviors, thoughts and actions to be modified more easily, but it’s not the fantasy of simply erasing a memory so that it no longer affects the patient. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/314 "2009-03-01T20:06:11Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > [Oh?](http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=hypnosis-memory-brain) > [@](#): > > After hypnosis, participants’ memories were tested twice while the fMRI scanner recorded their brain activity. For Test 1, they were asked 40 questions about the content of the movie (for example, the actress knocked on her neighbor’s door on the way home) and 20 questions about the context in which they saw the movie (for instance, during the movie, the door to the study room was closed). These questions required a “yes” or “no” response. For Test 2, participants were asked the same 60 recognition questions, but first they heard the cue to cancel PHA. So Test 1 measured memory performance and brain activity while the PHA suggestion was in effect and Test 2 measured memory performance and brain activity after it was cancelled. > > In Test 1 Mendelsohn and colleagues found that people in the PHA group (who could experience PHA) forgot more details from the movie than people in the non-PHA group (who could not experience PHA). But in Test 2, after the suggestion was cancelled, this memory loss was reversed. People in the PHA group correctly recognized just as many details from the movie as people in the non-PHA group. **Somewhat surprisingly, however, the suggestion to forget was selective in its impact. Although people in the PHA group had difficulty remembering the content of the movie following the forget suggestion, they had no difficulty remembering the context in which they saw the movie.** This is interesting. I’m wondering if the context and the actual events themselves are tied to two different memory functions? There are many ways of remembering. The subjects in the study were exposed to a movie, which is a pretty mundane narrative memory. Has this work been reproduced with traumatic memory? There is good evidence to indicate that traumatic memory is chemically encoded and retrieved in a different way than standard narrative memory. This would not surprise me, given the fact that traumatic memory as a subjective experience is completely different than narrative memory, particularly in cases of individuals with PTSD. I do want to emphasize that I don’t regard hypnosis in general as quackery. My point is that hypnosis cannot, at this point in time, serve as a magical panacea to eliminate traumatic experience. Furthermore, I am incredibly suspicious of anyone who suddenly has a traumatic memory resurface under the guidance of hypnosis. Memory in general is not reliable, one thing that’s abundantly clear is that hypnosis is often incredibly successful at fucking with the brain, and that combination of truths should make one leery about any subjective observation about hypnosis and memory. And my final point is that even if we could somehow take away our memories of trauma, using it to that end would raise serious ethical concerns about the perceived value of negative experiences. That was but one cool link, though. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/315 "2009-03-01T20:07:30Z")
This is true, of course, but to me “suppressing a memory” means suppressing the conscious recollection of it. In that sense, it’s clearly possible. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/316 "2009-03-01T21:22:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I’ve successfully talked my way out of being shot in the head by a “raging psycho”(well, a guy high on drugs) once. And I’ve run from violent confrontation more than once.I think if I developed a morality that said essentially “it is _sometimes_ OK to kill”, I’d suddenly find that that “sometimes” covers a lot more situations than I expected. Slippery slope and all that, I know, but I know how I am with latitude, personally. > > And we are discussing my _personal_ morality here. While I \*do \*consider it the ideal morality for everyone, I don’t proselytize it. I can perfectly understand why people advocate a “kill in self defence” morality. I don’t agree, but I understand. > However, the likelihood of me being a victim of gun crime or other violence is probably orders of magnitude greater than most other people on this board. I do, after all, live in South Africa, a very violent society.This twists the meaning of the word “killing” past all reason. I would not be the killer, the person doing the killing would. I’m not as fatalistic as you. I believe the real world responds to our efforts to change it, and that complacency in the face of a violent society is just as much a moral choice as opposing it or actively participating in it are. > Like I said, I’ve found out on more than one occasion. I’ve lived in some pretty violent times, and in some decidedly dangerous places. Fair enough, I of course have not had to deal with violence (not on a human level, I HAVE been chased out of the woods by an angry moose though and had other typical Alaskan encounters with wildlife, well typical for those of us who work out in the field I guess…:D). I understand, though still disagree with some of what you believe. And you’ve somewhat unmindboggled me with your explanations. Though of course that’s not my place to say for you. And sorry again for the extra R! Honestly, I’ve been reading this entire thread and seeing Mr. DRibble until it was pointed out to me, that there was no R…arrgh! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/317 "2009-03-02T05:17:47Z")
I’m not put out. I can understand the typo. I only get peeved when I can tell it’s used deliberately. But I should point out there’s no period or space in my name, either. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/318 "2009-03-02T06:35:40Z")
Up front: Most people here suffer from the idea that all human life is precious. In most of the world it is not nearly so. In this country we are not allowed to put down our evil offspring. :: shrug :: Most here have not worn the shoes. I don’t much care what you do, it is what it entails for me that is the problem. I feel that laws and justice have nothing in common. I feel that my life is no more precious than anyone else’s. One of my sisters was raped at gun point twice by the same guy who told the judge that if they let him out he would do just that. They let him make bail anyway without letting my sister or her family know. That is our justice system in action. In 1991, my 18 year old daughter was murdered. the DA would not arrest nor charge the guilty party because he was running for Lt. Gov and the time and he told the police, and the Lt. who was in charge of her case told me, because he did not want to have a possible loss as the proof was to circumstantial to suit him. It is still an open case. The guy has fled the country. There is that 1 in a million chance that the guy did not do it… So I did not nor did my son kill him. I think we were wrong not to. I live with this every day. You all can yak and posture all you want but you have no clue. If you have **Mr. D’s** attitude or what I feel is the blindness of **Kalhoun** , fine, but your desire to make me see the error of my ways is laughable. Only because many people were and are willing to fight and die for you, are you able to be this stupid and idiotic. Ain’t it grand… I have been on both sides of the juror box and on both tables in front and if you think it is about laws and justice and not about power and money, then you are really really stupid… Someone up thread talked about natures way of dealing and it does bring up that man and only man, (no religion or after life – remember, this is the dope after all) is the only **animal** that makes this terrible mistake… I don’t make that mistake anymore and with the decreasing quality of our judicial system and all levels of government, those that are willing to give up their family members to it’s corruption and stand there and say that if their children or family members are as poorly treated as mine has been and smile and say thank you to the wise ones of the system and of the SDMB, well, you will be getting exactly what you deserve… Since 99.999% of you will never have to find out what it is really like, I know this is falling on deaf ears but do not be surprised at the more sever reactions you might get from people in the real world when you say these thing to their face at the funerals of their children or friend or family members. When they cry out because the courts let the killers and rapist go and you do not tell then the same thing you are saying in this thread you are worst kind of hypocrites there are. I really doubt you most of you have the stones to tell your siblings these things at the funeral of the their children or at the bed side of you sister who was raped oh so gently… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/319 "2009-03-02T07:45:25Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > You all can yak and posture all you want but you have no clue. If you have **Mr. D’s** attitude or what I feel is the blindness of **Kalhoun** , fine, but your desire to make me see the error of my ways is laughable. I have no desire to make anyone see any “error” - like I said, it is _my_ chosen lifestance, I don’t directly advocate it for anyone else. > [@](#): > > Only because many people were and are willing to fight and die for you, are you able to be this stupid and idiotic. I’ve addressed this before - suffice to say, it just ain’t so. I had the same stance when the people in power were the ones doing the killing and the maiming, and bloody revoltion looked like an attractive way out. > [@](#): > > Ain’t it grand… I have been on both sides of the juror box and on both tables in front and if you think it is about laws and justice and not about power and money, then you are really really stupid… It is precisely because there is no universal Justice that I believe as I do. > [@](#): > > Someone up thread talked about natures way of dealing and it does bring up that man and only man, (no religion or after life – remember, this is the dope after all) is the only **animal** that makes this terrible mistake… What mistake, nonviolence? Lots of animals practice nonviolence, and it works for them. Mercy? That’s a human construct, I agree, but so is the concept of murder. Note, I confine my nonviolence to humans only. Killed enough animals in my time. > [@](#): > > Since 99.999% of you will never have to find out what it is really like, I know this is falling on deaf ears but do not be surprised at the more sever reactions you might get from people in the real world when you say these thing to their face at the funerals of their children or friend or family members. When they cry out because the courts let the killers and rapist go and you do not tell then the same thing you are saying in this thread you are worst kind of hypocrites there are. I’m not afraid to say “I refuse to kill” in the real world. Truth be told, it’s not the most bizarre worldview out there. Most people who don’t know me that well just assume I’m Buddhist or Jain or Quaker or somesuch. > [@](#): > > I really doubt you most of you have the stones to tell your siblings these things at the funeral of the their children or at the bed side of you sister who was raped oh so gently… Paah - I’ve _been_ raped (once at knifepoint), it was pretty bad both times, but I still wouldn’t wish death on the guys who did it. As to “stones”, what would I be scared of saying to a sibling? “Sorry, brother, but I wouldn’t become a killer just to save little Johnny”? This would not be news to anyone in my family. Nor would my mostly very liberal Christan sibs see anything unusual about it - them all being very much “turn the other cheek” types. Like I said earlier, “Two wrongs make a right” is a fallacy, and so is _[argumentum ad misericordiam](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_pity)_. I just don’t get why so many people have a bug up their noses about this,or why you’re all so insulting about it, either. It’s not like pacifism doesn’t have some pretty well-known historical precedents. It’s not like I’m asking anyone to follow my moral code, either. Why does the mere existence of pacifists irk people so? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/320 "2009-03-02T14:38:51Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Up front: > Most people here suffer from the idea that all human life is precious. In most of the world it is not nearly so. > In this country we are not allowed to put down our evil offspring. :: shrug :: > Most here have not worn the shoes. > > I don’t much care what you do, it is what it entails for me that is the problem. > > I feel that laws and justice have nothing in common. > I feel that my life is no more precious than anyone else’s. > > One of my sisters was raped at gun point twice by the same guy who told the judge that if they let him out he would do just that. They let him make bail anyway without letting my sister or her family know. > > That is our justice system in action. > > In 1991, my 18 year old daughter was murdered. the DA would not arrest nor charge the guilty party because he was running for Lt. Gov and the time and he told the police, and the Lt. who was in charge of her case told me, because he did not want to have a possible loss as the proof was to circumstantial to suit him. It is still an open case. The guy has fled the country. There is that 1 in a million chance that the guy did not do it.. So I did not nor did my son kill him. I think we were wrong not to. I live with this every day. > > You all can yak and posture all you want but you have no clue. If you have **Mr. D’s** attitude or what I feel is the blindness of **Kalhoun** , fine, but your desire to make me see the error of my ways is laughable. > > Only because many people were and are willing to fight and die for you, are you able to be this stupid and idiotic. Ain’t it grand… I have been on both sides of the juror box and on both tables in front and if you think it is about laws and justice and not about power and money, then you are really really stupid… > > Someone up thread talked about natures way of dealing and it does bring up that man and only man, (no religion or after life – remember, this is the dope after all) is the only **animal** that makes this terrible mistake… > > I don’t make that mistake anymore and with the decreasing quality of our judicial system and all levels of government, those that are willing to give up their family members to it’s corruption and stand there and say that if their children or family members are as poorly treated as mine has been and smile and say thank you to the wise ones of the system and of the SDMB, well, you will be getting exactly what you deserve… > > Since 99.999% of you will never have to find out what it is really like, I know this is falling on deaf ears but do not be surprised at the more sever reactions you might get from people in the real world when you say these thing to their face at the funerals of their children or friend or family members. When they cry out because the courts let the killers and rapist go and you do not tell then the same thing you are saying in this thread you are worst kind of hypocrites there are. > > I really doubt you most of you have the stones to tell your siblings these things at the funeral of the their children or at the bed side of you sister who was raped oh so gently… I don’t know why you would think it’s “blindness” that makes me think the way I do. I am perfectly aware that I could kill people if I wanted to. I simply don’t consider it as an option in my arsenal. I also don’t consider all human life to be precious. That’s not the reason I am against killing. I’m against it because it chips away at our collective humanity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363.md?page=17)