# Mother sets fire to her daughter's gloating rapist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 25, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363 "2009-02-25T14:27:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/121 "2009-02-25T21:22:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What? > > Raping a 13-year-old is a heinous crime. Do you consider dressing like a whore to be a heinous crime? Of course not. I think that saying a murderer deserves to be set on fire is as repugnant a thought as saying a woman deserves to be raped. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/122 "2009-02-25T21:23:20Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > Of course not. I think that saying a murderer deserves to be set on fire is as repugnant a thought as saying a woman deserves to be raped. Can’t it be repugnant without being _as_ repugnant? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/123 "2009-02-25T21:24:12Z")
> [@CaveMike](#): > > So if a victim complies with the rape, doesn’t fight back, and thus doesn’t get beaten – then the crime is less severe than if the victim fights back and gets beaten, but not raped? I’m not trying to ask a loaded question; just trying to understand your point. Correct. Or if a person gets beaten with no intention of rape. Being beaten is worse than being “just” raped. > [@](#): > > In this case, the girl was threatened at knife point. I would assume that itself is a crime independent of the subsequent rape. I would also consider these both violent assault crimes. I consider them both violent crimes, as well. However, I consider a beating much more violent than a rape at knifepoint. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/124 "2009-02-25T21:27:05Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Can’t it be repugnant without being _as_ repugnant? Absolutely, but that’s the problem. It may not be as repugnant to you as it is to me. This is exactly why vigilante justice shouldn’t be tolerated. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/125 "2009-02-25T21:29:35Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > However, I consider a beating much more violent than a rape at knifepoint. Why? I’ve never heard this position before, and would like to know more. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/126 "2009-02-25T21:31:14Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > Absolutely, but that’s the problem. It may not be as repugnant to you as it is to me. Agreed. > [@](#): > > This is exactly why vigilante justice shouldn’t be tolerated. This does not follow. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/127 "2009-02-25T21:33:04Z")
> [@EJsGirl](#): > > In the US, we have laws WRT “fighting words.” I don’t have the specifics for CA handy, but I suppose it could be one of her possible defenses. Nope. There is no such defense to homicide. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/128 "2009-02-25T21:35:19Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > [QUOTE=me] > This is exactly why vigilante justice shouldn’t be tolerated. This does not follow. [/QUOTE] What if I think stealing a candy bar is as repugnant as raping someone, and decide to set fire to a thief? There’s no system for saying which vigilante justice is “truly justified” - it’s based solely on people’s fickle emotions. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/129 "2009-02-25T21:37:35Z")
What you or I or any message-board-posting _biens pensants_ may think about our loyalty to our hypothetical rapist offspring, the plain fact is that there are any number of people out there who wouldn’t consider it reasonable that their father, brother, uncle or whoever should be summarily burned to death whatever they had done, and would be as willing to exact tit-for-tat-plus-interest retaliation just as this mother did, and, as stated above, the circle of life continues. Gandhi said “an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind”, but IMO an eye for an eye leaves \*a proportion \*of the world one-eyed, sadder and wiser. It’s when you escalate to “two eyes and a rock through the head for an eye” that the trouble starts. And for those who’re saying “I respect the law as long as it does what I think it ought, otherwise I reserve the right to see justice done personally”, that’s just a fancy way of saying “To hell with the law, I’ll do as I please”. ---
**Author:** ![Cuckoorex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Cuckoorex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cuckoorex)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/130 "2009-02-25T21:38:17Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > Why? > I’ve never heard this position before, and would like to know more. I know they are cinematic references, but compare the rape in **Kids** (where a teen passes out at a party and another teen rapes her while she is unconscious but does not beat her) and the rape in **Irreversible** (where Monica Belluci’s character is anally raped at knifepoint and then brutally punched and kicked into a coma) and tell me which is more violent, the rape itself or the beating. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/131 "2009-02-25T21:39:36Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Nope. There is no such defense to homicide. The rapist’s words can be a mitigating factor when it comes to sentencing, though- and might even be enough to get her charged reduced from murder in the first to a lesser one. No idea how the Spanish criminal law system works, though. [QUOTE=RoOsh] Why? I’ve never heard this position before, and would like to know more. [/QUOTE] I don’t fully subscribe to this view, but I believe the general idea is that a beating is administered with the specific intent to cause pain, while a rape is not. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/132 "2009-02-25T21:39:52Z")
> [@Ro0sh](#): > > Why? > I’ve never heard this position before, and would like to know more. The chance of death or permanent physical harm is the difference. A beating can cause internal bleeding, brain damage, etc. Rape in and of itself is not going to kill the victim, in most cases. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/133 "2009-02-25T21:40:53Z")
Why do actions have to be either completely bad or completely good? My Calculus: Raping a 13-year-old girl with threat of force = 100% bad, 0% good. Burning the rapist of your 13-year-old daughter alive = 93.64% bad, 6.36% good. IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/134 "2009-02-25T21:43:49Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > What you or I or any message-board-posting _biens pensants_ may think about our loyalty to our hypothetical rapist offspring, the plain fact is that there are any number of people out there who wouldn’t consider it reasonable that their father, brother, uncle or whoever should be summarily burned to death whatever they had done, and would be as willing to exact tit-for-tat-plus-interest retaliation just as this mother did, and, as stated above, the circle of life continues. Agreed, which is why I have said that I am grateful for the judicial apparatus, and also that the mother should be punished legally. I can’t speak for anyone else here, but I’m talking about moral rights, not legal ones. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/135 "2009-02-25T21:44:04Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Why do actions have to be either completely bad or completely good? > > My Calculus: > > Raping a 13-year-old girl with threat of force = 100% bad, 0% good. > > Burning the rapist of your 13-year-old daughter alive = 93.64% bad, 6.36% good. > > IMO. I’m gonna have to adjust your second item to about 51-49. ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/136 "2009-02-25T21:50:43Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I believe those who see the rapist’s being out on a weekend furlough regard the system’s response as a failure. That is, they see the response as entirely inadequate: not as big a failure as it would have been if he had never been incarcereated, but still a failure. Then what they should do is change the system. What they shouldn’t do is toss law and order out the window. [QUOTE=Skald the Rhymer] > [@"Fuji](#): > > Why do actions have to be either completely bad or completely good? > > My Calculus: > > Raping a 13-year-old girl with threat of force = 100% bad, 0% good. > > Burning the rapist of your 13-year-old daughter alive = 93.64% bad, 6.36% good. > > IMO. I’m gonna have to adjust your second item to about 51-49. [/quote] And I would have to adjust the second item to about 100-0. Unless we’re talking about _feeling_ good. But that’s completely different from _morally_ good. e.g., The rapist did something _morally_ bad for something that _felt_ good. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/137 "2009-02-25T21:52:46Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m gonna have to adjust your second item to about 51-49. Fair enough. As long as the second ratio isn’t zero, we’re cool. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/138 "2009-02-25T21:55:54Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > Then what they should do is change the system. What they shouldn’t do is toss law and order out the window. > And I would have to adjust the second item to about 100-0. Unless we’re talking about _feeling_ good. But that’s completely different from _morally_ good. > > e.g., The rapist did something _morally_ bad for something that _felt_ good. Why are you introducing a totally irrelevant tangent about hedonism into a debate about the morality and legality of vigilante justice? ---
**Author:** ![LilShieste](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/139 "2009-02-25T22:02:03Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Why are you introducing a totally irrelevant tangent about hedonism into a debate about the morality and legality of vigilante justice? If you think it’s irrelevant, then it’s obvious why you don’t think vigilante justice is a problem. I don’t see it as irrelevant, though. Not at all. The legality of it? That’s easy - do the homicide laws in Spain say anything along the lines of, “The rapist will serve jail time… unless someone really thinks he should die. In which case, that’s ok.” The morality of it? That’s easy too - we’re talking about setting a human being on fire. All that’s left is: will we enjoy it? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363/140 "2009-02-25T22:06:27Z")
> [@LilShieste](#): > > What if I think stealing a candy bar is as repugnant as raping someone, and decide to set fire to a thief? There’s no system for saying which vigilante justice is “truly justified” - it’s based solely on people’s fickle emotions. Who writes and enforces laws? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist/487363.md?page=8)