# Motherfucking idiots in my apartment building **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2004, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282 "2004-07-09T14:26:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/141 "2004-07-14T00:12:02Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > . . . And, yet another dog cite for you to [chew](http://beluga.genpat.uu.se/dog.html) . Dammit, those Swedish cads are ‘using this data set quantify to what degree different behaviors can be attributed to genetics and also to model the complexity of genetics for different traits’. . . . Don’t have access to your first link. The second link describes the starting hypothesis for experimental work that they plan to do; it states no conclusions. Even though it was . . . > [@](#): > > Last updated on Sunday, March 24, 2002 I’d be interested in seeing the results of this study. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/142 "2004-07-14T00:14:04Z")
> [@Boldface Type](#): > > **Lissener** , you are so far from the scientific canon that I fear you have been shot from it. > > But, a suggestion: Try searching for [Behavioral genetics](http://www.ornl.gov/sci/techresources/Human_Genome/elsi/behavior.shtml), rather than ‘sociobiology’ which is (AFAIK) an outdated and mildly quaint term. > > Now, if you follow the link above, you’ll see a few more helpful quotes. For example, under the heading ‘What indications are there that behavior has a biological basis?’, one indicator given is: > > ‘Behaviors often breed true. We can reproduce behaviors in successive generations of organisms. Consider the instinctive retrieval behavior of a yellow Labrador or the herding posture of a border collie.’ > > There’s some more interesting info at this [Border Collie](http://www.bordercollie.org/kpbehav.html) site. Reference is made to the book ‘Genetics and the Social Behavior of the Dog’ ([Amazon](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0226743381/103-2068973-1499805?v=glance) ). Now, I’ve not read this book - more of a cat person, meself, like - but here are some more nuggets from the book, as presented on the Border Collie site: > > In the context of crouching behaviour in two different breeds of dog: > > ‘The crouch itself could be shown to be controlled by two major genes, with the crouch (or sit) dominant over the stand. The quiet attitude was also controlled by two genes, with the Spaniel behavior (quiet) recessive to the more active. The whole pattern of quietly crouching, then, results from four genes altogether. The number of different genetic combinations that can be formed from 2 (2-factor) genes is 256!’ > > ‘Basenjis are known as a breed that doesn’t bark; Cocker Spaniels are infamous barkers. But even Basenjis will bark; they merely need to be more strongly stimulated. The trait of being easily stimulated to bark, as exhibited by the Spaniel, is dominant and shows statistical inheritance close to what would be predicted for a single gene’ > > Of course - see the quote immediately above! However, it is possible to breed such that certain behaviours are more readily expressed. Again, the quote immediately above is an example of this. Breeding for specific traits increases the probability that such traits will be expressed; it does not guarantee it. > > I must admit that engaging you in a discussion on this topic seems to be about as much use as trying to cultivate kumquats up one’s nose, but I always did enjoy the fruits of futility. I’ll find a copy of that book; seems relevant to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/143 "2004-07-14T00:26:58Z")
Presumably, it would be perfectly acceptable to disallow pitbulls from an aprtment complex with the justification that they aren’t as bad at being agressive as other breeds. You aren’t saying they’re agressive… merely that other breeds are less agressive. Or am I not understanding the “dog breeds are retarded” reasoning? ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/144 "2004-07-14T00:48:55Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > Presumably, it would be perfectly acceptable to disallow pitbulls from an aprtment complex with the justification that they aren’t as bad at being agressive as other breeds. You aren’t saying they’re agressive… merely that other breeds are less agressive. > > Or am I not understanding the “dog breeds are retarded” reasoning? It seems to me that that would be easier to prove; it’s still too strong a statement, IMHO, and tradition and prejudice are not given proper weight. Also, there’s no denying the physical characteristics of a particular breed: pit bulls have very, very strong jaws; they’d certainly cause more damage than most other breed if they \*are \* vicious. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/145 "2004-07-14T01:34:12Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > That’s stated much, much to strongly for my taste; too absolute. How about this. I don’t get it. You didn’t have a problem with “For example, small dogs like Chihuahuas tend to be high-strung and St. Bernards tend to be large, slobbering, and lovable. Am I saying it’s impossible to have a calm Chihuahua and a mean St. Bernard? Hell no.” but now that I’ve added American Pit Bull Terriers, you suddenly have a problem? You’re going to strip your gears by going into reverse so quickly. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/146 "2004-07-14T01:40:49Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > I don’t get it. You didn’t have a problem with “For example, small dogs like Chihuahuas tend to be high-strung and St. Bernards tend to be large, slobbering, and lovable. Am I saying it’s impossible to have a calm Chihuahua and a mean St. Bernard? Hell no.” but now that I’ve added American Pit Bull Terriers, you suddenly have a problem? You’re going to strip your gears by going into reverse so quickly. No; I’ve said “tends to” is to strongly positive. I restated it in a way that makes more sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/147 "2004-07-14T01:58:28Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > No; I’ve said “tends to” is to strongly positive. I restated it in a way that makes more sense to me. Which you did not do when I used “tend to” in the previous post; this says to me that you thought it was fine in reference solely to Chihuahuas and St. Bernards but automatically became “too strong” with the addition of American Pit Bull Terriers. Face it, you just backpedaled into a position that cannot be reconciled. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/148 "2004-07-14T02:00:45Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Invest in a pocket knife. It’ll do the trick if you stab the motherfucking dog in the throat or something. I have heard of these obnoxious beasts clamping down and hanging on even after death, but I’d rather it was hanging on me dead than alive. > > My son and I were prisoners in our home when I lived next door to an asshole that had a vicious great dane that outweighed me by a good 40 lbs. It was terrifying. This was in a small mountain town and the sheriff wouldn’t do anything when the people left the dog outside, unleashed, all goddamn day. It was a nightmare. Never again. Just a guess here, but I would bet you have never been attacked by a dog, or know much about pit bulls. My buddy owned a very nice and friendly pit bull. One night the police were chasing a bad guy, during the chase they went through his gate, and into his backyard W/O permission. The dog started to bark and approach the officer. The officer panicked, drew and fired his pistol, hitting the dog in the head at a range of about 6 feet. The 9mm slug bounced off the skull of the dog. :eek: It took a couple of hundred bucks at the vets, but the dog was home a few days later. And you are going to take one on with a pocketknife? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Good luck, Can I watch? The problems with trying to slit the throat of a pit are several. First off the throat of a pit will be at about your ankle level (there are not very tall dogs). Secondly, when the muscles in the neck of the dog are straining, cutting through them will be very difficult to say the least. Thirdly and lastly, you will be in major pain from the dog attacking you. Having been attacked several times over the years, I can tell you that it is not a fun experience. I do not recommend it. If you are serious about protection against a possibly vicious dog, I would suggest a baseball bat. The object here is to keep the dog from attacking. Using a knife, if the dog is in range of your knife, you are in range of the dog’s teeth, if the object is to keep from being attacked, this is considered to be not a good place to be. Oh, and the comment about > [@](#): > > obnoxious beasts clamping down and hanging on even after death Got Cite? ---
**Author:** ![qcomdrj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/a6a055/32.png) [@qcomdrj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qcomdrj)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/149 "2004-07-14T02:24:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by **Rick** \* > The officer panicked, drew and fired his pistol, hitting the dog in the head at a range of about 6 feet. The 9mm slug bounced off the skull of the dog. Mental note. Do not stab dog in head. However, I’ve never seen a vicious dog go for the ankles, they go for the head and neck. Maybe a vicious chihuahua. They’re endemic you know. We are just recommending her to carry one around. It is easier to carry that than a baseball bat. Oh, and don’t slit the throat. Stab. It is actually much easier. And then stab again. Until the dog decides to leave you alone. Knives are easier to use than bats in close combat situations anyway. Once the dog gets in on you, its quite tough to use the bat. Any weapon is better than none though. Back to the OP, or the teleological sociobiology argument. Either is sufficient. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/150 "2004-07-14T03:01:33Z")
> [@qcomdrj](#): > > Mental note. Do not stab dog in head. > However, I’ve never seen a vicious dog go for the ankles, they go for the head and neck. Maybe a vicious chihuahua. They’re endemic you know. > We are just recommending her to carry one around. It is easier to carry that than a baseball bat. > Oh, and don’t slit the throat. Stab. It is actually much easier. And then stab again. Until the dog decides to leave you alone. Knives are easier to use than bats in close combat situations anyway. Once the dog gets in on you, its quite tough to use the bat. Any weapon is better than none though. Back to the OP, or the teleological sociobiology argument. Either is sufficient. Would you like to see the scars on my ankle from the **TWO** German Shepards that gang attacked me? Unless you are A) a midget, or B) live where there is some wierd mutant mmonster pit bulls, or C) the pit bulls where you live have wings; there is no way in hell a pit can get to your neck as long as you are standing up. How does the dog bring you down? simple it bites your ankles. What part of this is so hard to understand? The object here to keep from being attacked. A knife is no good in this regard. A baseball bat, tennis racket, or hockey stick on the other hand, will work to keep a dog at bay. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/151 "2004-07-14T12:48:28Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Just a guess here, but I would bet you have never been attacked by a dog, or know much about pit bulls. For someone who’s been attacked repeatedly, it appears your methods aren’t working too well, eh? > [@](#): > > My buddy owned a very nice and friendly pit bull. One night the police were chasing a bad guy, during the chase they went through his gate, and into his backyard W/O permission. The dog started to bark and approach the officer. The officer panicked, drew and fired his pistol, hitting the dog in the head at a range of about 6 feet. The 9mm slug bounced off the skull of the dog. :eek: It took a couple of hundred bucks at the vets, but the dog was home a few days later. And you are going to take one on with a pocketknife? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Good luck, Can I watch? Lucky shit happens. There was also a guy who had a railroad spike in his head that survived. The chances of it happening are slim, but yeah, it happens. And, yeah…if you get off on watching a vicious dog get a 4-inch blade plunged in its neck, by all means, pull up a chair. You may learn something about quality knives, as well. > [@](#): > > The problems with trying to slit the throat of a pit are several. Who said anything about “slitting” a dog’s throat? I said, “stab.” Quite effective. > [@](#): > > If you are serious about protection against a possibly vicious dog, I would suggest a baseball bat. The object here is to keep the dog from attacking. It might be effective, but not very convenient. It’s difficult to walk around with a friggin’ bat all the time. A knife can be carried in your pocket or purse and opened when you’re walking in the dog’s vicinity. Not everyone wants to look like Joe Don Baker. > [@](#): > > Oh, and the comment about Got Cite? My cite is in my statement. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/152 "2004-07-14T12:50:22Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > A baseball bat, tennis racket, or hockey stick on the other hand, will work to keep a dog at bay. I agree, with one addition: Animal Control officers carry an extensible wand with them, not to beat aggressive dogs, but rather to give them something to focus on. Shove a stick in front of a snarler, and she’ll chomp onto the stick instead of onto your arm. If I were attacked by a dog, I wouldn’t be trying to beat it to death; I’d be trying to keep a bat or a stick or something in between me and the dog so that it would be trying to eat the stick instead of me. The dog’s a lot stronger than you. All you’ve got going for you is that you’re smarter than the dog. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![1010011010](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/ea666f/32.png) [@1010011010](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/1010011010)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/153 "2004-07-14T21:59:40Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > > [@1010011010](#): > > > > You aren’t saying they’re agressive… merely that other breeds are less agressive. > > It seems to me that that would be easier to prove; it’s still too strong a statement, IMHO, and tradition and prejudice are not given proper weight. So. X\>Y is reasonable, while Y\ **Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/154 "2004-07-15T00:57:22Z") > [@Kalhoun](#): > > For someone who’s been attacked repeatedly, it appears your methods aren’t working too well, eh? Well dogs have been successful in attacking me 3 times when I was a child. I did not know as much then as I do now. since I took some time to learn about dogs, and how they attack, there has not been another successful attack. About another dozen have tried and not succeeded. A stick or even a blast of water from the water bottle on my bike will discourage most if not all attacks. Offhand I would say that my methods work damn near all the time, since I have not had a dog bite me since I learned them (almost 40 years ago) :wally > [@](#): > > Lucky shit happens. There was also a guy who had a railroad spike in his head that survived. The chances of it happening are slim, but yeah, it happens. And, yeah…if you get off on watching a vicious dog get a 4-inch blade plunged in its neck, by all means, pull up a chair. You may learn something about quality knives, as well. > Who said anything about “slitting” a dog’s throat? I said, “stab.” Quite effective. > > It might be effective, but not very convenient. It’s difficult to walk around with a friggin’ bat all the time. A knife can be carried in your pocket or purse and opened when you’re walking in the dog’s vicinity. Not everyone wants to look like Joe Don Baker. What I suspect that I will learn is that a certain blowhard know it all will get his ass handed to him by 80 lbs of very pissed off dog. If the dog attacks without warning you will most likely be on the ground long before your knife ever leaves your pocket. A pocketknife, in your pocket, is about as useful as bringing an unloaded gun to a gun fight. In other words not much use at all. Oh and my favorite line in this crock of shit > [@](#): > > My cite is in my statement. You have how many fucking thousand posts on a message board/website dedicated to fighting ignorance, and you expect this to slide by unchallenged? I don’t care if you post that 6=9, that does not mean that all the math textbooks will get re-written on your say so. Prove it, or retract it. And since this is the pit, may I add to that statement the following: Asshole. :wally ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/155 "2004-07-15T03:24:03Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > Which you did not do when I used “tend to” in the previous post; this says to me that you thought it was fine in reference solely to Chihuahuas and St. Bernards but automatically became “too strong” with the addition of American Pit Bull Terriers. Face it, you just backpedaled into a position that cannot be reconciled. No; the first time you used it was just in the ongoing flow of this discussion. I didn’t feel the need to vet every single syllable in your post; I felt I was responding to its spirit and didn’t want to dwell on any gray areas. Your next use of the word _tends_ was an attempt to sum up a final statement for this whole long debate. As such, I didn’t want to “sign off” on it without vetting it in much closer detail and accuracy. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/156 "2004-07-15T03:27:47Z")
> [@1010011010](#): > > So. X\>Y is reasonable, while Y\ > “Other breeds are generally less agressive than this breed” is not substantially different from saying “This breed is generally more agressive than other breeds”. There’s obviously a rhetorical difference, but I don’t see much of a case for there being a semantic difference. In discussions of science such as this, I prefer to err on the side of accuracy. When I use such unquantitative words as “less” or “more” I tend to think of them in terms of a general, scientifically arrived at baseline. In this kind of discussion, comparisons between individuals is largely irrelevant. In any case, that little statement that you want to dismiss as “rhetorically” the same thing–give or take, gray area, close enough for government work–is the heart of this whole entire discussion, so I’m not going to be cavalier about accuracy when discussing it. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/157 "2004-07-15T13:40:20Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > No; the first time you used it was just in the ongoing flow of this discussion. I didn’t feel the need to vet every single syllable in your post; I felt I was responding to its spirit and didn’t want to dwell on any gray areas. Your next use of the word _tends_ was an attempt to sum up a final statement for this whole long debate. As such, I didn’t want to “sign off” on it without vetting it in much closer detail and accuracy. That load of crap is the best you can come up with? It’s time to get off your soapbox, there’s a [martyr](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=266258) who needs the wood. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/158 "2004-07-15T13:47:11Z")
> [@Jeff Olsen](#): > > That load of crap is the best you can come up with? It’s time to get off your soapbox, there’s a [martyr](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=266258) who needs the wood. C’mon. In a scientific discussion like this one, it’s totally acceptable to go by the spirit of the post rather than by what the poster actually wrote. The scientific consensus supports this approach: I refer you to these writings about sunspots as proof. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/159 "2004-07-15T14:01:57Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness](#): > > C’mon. In a scientific discussion like this one, it’s totally acceptable to go by the spirit of the post rather than by what the poster actually wrote. Problem is, the post in question was part of my attempt to bring closure to this mess. Either my statement works or it doesn’t, **lissener** can’t have it both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2004, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282/160 "2004-07-15T15:36:48Z")
I mean, he’s already agreed with my point concerning the Knollers’ Presa Canarios. > [@lissener](#): > > these dogs were bred as weapons. Two equally valid statements of intention. Those dogs were trained to be vicious. He has not disputed that dogs have been bred toward certain goals. His only stance on > [@me](#): > > Given that “Pit” Bull Terriers and Presa Canarios have a longer history of being bred for their tenacity and strenghth, it stands to reason that they’d be more difficult to train to be unaggressive than breeds like the Bulldog is that, in his opinion, it’s not a valid conclusion. If he had a problem with my statement that they have been bred for tenacity and strength, he should have said so. He did not. He said it’s not a valid conclusion that they’d be more difficult to train to be unaggressive. All of a sudden, it _is_ a problem. BTW: I’m not the only one who’s been having trouble following his wandering line of reasoning. > [@CanvasShoes](#): > > Ummm, how is “tend to be” stated too strongly and absolute? > > Sure there are chihuahuas that are calm and relaxed. I’ve never met one, nor seen one on TV, nor known anyone who has seen one, even though I know they DO exist. Sheesh, even the information you get from breeders and breeder’s sites and books on the subject will tell you what traits “your” breed tends to have. > > This is one of the reasons that you have people going for certain breeds among the purebred dog, they know basically what traits they can count on. People who love chihuahuas don’t CARE that they shake all over and are nervous little things. > > I adore aussies, I don’t CARE that they are psychotic “MUST HAVE A JOB” little creatures, I love them for the traits I DO know that breed tends to have. Are there “duds”? Dogs that don’t follow the norm for their breed? No one is saying there aren’t. But to dismiss that certain breeds do have traits that are specific to their breed is to ignore hundreds of years of history and documentation. > Labs tend to be “throw the ball, throw the ball, throw the ball, throw it again” addicts. This EXISTS. To dispute this is to call into question how much experience you have had training actual dogs. I mean, just in the experiences that I’ve had with friend’s dogs, dogs that people on the net have described, dogs in my dog training classes, it’s easy to see which breeds have which traits figuring strongly in their personality. How can YOU, a dog trainer, you must have seen hundreds of representatives of certain breeds, have NOT seem these same tendencies? > > Do you mean to tell us that of all the dogs you’ve trained, that they all exhibitted the exact same doggie tendencies until you trained them??? > > Now, I have no doubt that a person could, with enough time and patience, SOMEHOW manage to get a basset hound to herd sheep. Or to get enough chihuahuas to pull a dogsled (and if you don’t believe that certain breeds have certain tendencies, you need to come watch the start of the iditarod). But that is NOT the same thing as saying “all dogs have all traits, they just need to be trained”. > > Um, no an aussie will be naturals for that training, they only have to be “reminded” in their training. (not trying to push aussies, they just happen to be the dog I know best). Are there dumb ones? Duds? Again, of course. But their natural tendency is that they are “herding ready”. Just as labs are "get the duck (or tennis ball) ready. You don’t have to “teach” most labs to love water. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherfucking-idiots-in-my-apartment-building/254282.md?page=9)