# "Motherland" versus "Fatherland" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 2, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238 "2003-06-02T21:56:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![habs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecae2f/32.png) [@habs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/habs)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/1 "2003-06-02T21:56:32Z")
What is the difference? For example, in Russian culture, Russia is referred to as the “Motherland”, whereas in German culture, Germany is often referred to as the “Fatherland”. Is there a reason for the different genders representing those particular countries? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/2 "2003-06-02T22:06:42Z")
The spanish call their country the mother fatherland (madre patria). you can’t do any better than that. ---
**Author:** ![Goodbeem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/958977/32.png) [@Goodbeem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Goodbeem)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/3 "2003-06-03T00:52:53Z")
IANA German, but as far as I know, referring to “Vaterland” in Germany is not considered a Good Thing. Once I wrote a piece about a German friend and was kindlky requested by him to remove all the reference to Vaterland, because of the connotations with the past. As to the OP: I would not know. In Dutch it is “vaderland”, although “moederland” is also used. It is always “moedertaal”, though (mother-tongue). ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/4 "2003-06-03T10:22:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Goodbeem \* > **IANA German, but as far as I know, referring to “Vaterland” in Germany is not considered a Good Thing. Once I wrote a piece about a German friend and was kindlky requested by him to remove all the reference to Vaterland, because of the connotations with the past.** Bad spelling: Einigreichts und Rechts und Freiheit unter das Vaterland… isn’t that from the German national anthem? Maybe WEST German national anthem (did they change post-reunification?). ---
**Author:** ![manwithaplan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f1d935/32.png) [@manwithaplan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manwithaplan)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/5 "2003-06-03T10:44:53Z")
While neither term is really used in Ireland, the country is often represented in poetry and music as a woman. Probably something to do with our national oedipus complex and unhealthy fixation with the Virgin Mary. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/6 "2003-06-03T11:51:44Z")
I’ve only heard either term used in the USA twice. “Motherland” in the Village People’s 70’s disco hit _In The Navy_; and “Fatherland” once in Wisconsin, in a heavily German-ancestry neighborhood–a linguistic artifact. Otherwise, the term seems to be “Homeland”. ---
**Author:** ![WillSantini](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ed8c4c/32.png) [@WillSantini](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillSantini)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/7 "2003-06-03T15:23:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*The spanish call their country the mother fatherland (madre patria). you can’t do any better than that. \*\* Patria can be translated to “fatherland”, but as used above, it is more properly translated to “country”. from [http://www.foreignword.com/](http://www.foreignword.com/) patria sustantivo femenino native land; fatherland **madre patria mother country** luchar por la patria to fight for one’s country MODISMO:hacer patria to fly the flag (informal) patria adoptiva adopted country patria chica home town; home area ---
**Author:** ![Casey1505](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dc4da7/32.png) [@Casey1505](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Casey1505)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/8 "2003-06-03T15:52:58Z")
Slight hijack, but in keeping with the topic, sort of: Fans of alternative history would probably enjoy the book [_Fatherland_](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0061006629/002-9710046-4072808?vi=glance). It was also made into a [movie.](http://us.imdb.com/Title?0109779) Sorry I didn’t have anything interesting to add to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/9 "2003-06-03T16:44:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Balthisar \* > \*\*Bad spelling: > Einigreichts und Rechts und Freiheit unter das Vaterland… isn’t that from the German national anthem? Maybe WEST German national anthem (did they change post-reunification?). \*\* No, we didn’t. It indeed used to be the West German national anthem, and now it’s the national anthem of the reunified Germany. It’s the third stanza to the Deutschlandlied whose first stanza is the ill-fated _Deutschland ueber Alles_ one, but the third and only the third stanza is the one sung today. Many Germans indeed hate the term Vaterland, but there has been an everlasting discussion here for years on whether Germans should be more patriotic than they are. Many say no, because of the country’s past; the conservatives say yes, as other nations, and they sometimes do use Vaterland, but generally it’s a term you would try to avoid. The lyrics to the anthem, btw, date back to the 1840s or so, when there was no German national state. As for the OP, I’d just like to add that I’ve heard _Motherland_ used to refer to the homeland of a colonial power, in contrast to the colonies. As for Russia, WWII is know there as the Great Patriotic War; I don’t speak any Russian, but the German translation of Russian term gives “patriotic” as “vaterlaendisch.” Strikes me as surprising, because allegories of nations mostly are female (although this might just be a result of many of them ending in -a in Latin). It’s interesting that the Romans derived their term from “father” too, although the most common words they had for “state” (res publica, civitas) were female, just as the name of Rome itself. Summary: I don’t have any idea, but it’s a really good question. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/10 "2003-06-03T17:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schnitte \* > … **It’s interesting that the Romans derived their term from “father” too, although the most common words they had for “state” (res publica, civitas) were female, just as the name of Rome itself.** … Feminine in form does not equal female in meaning. For instance, _agricola_ means “farmer” and _nauta_ means “sailor”. They have the same declension as _Roma_, _pecunia_ (“money”) and _femina_ (“woman”) but that doesn’t mean all farmers and sailors were women. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2003, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motherland-versus-fatherland/179238/11 "2003-06-03T17:22:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schnitte \* > I’d just like to add that I’ve heard Motherland used to refer to the homeland of a colonial power, in contrast to the colonies That is the way “madre patria” is used. In Spanish-American countries it means Spain. Note that “patria” (like “patriarch” and similar words) derives from “pater”, Latin for “father” and cannot be used to mean “country” in general terms but only “country from which a person is from”, i.e. “fatherland”.