# Moto: Loathesome Pustule **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 22, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370 "2005-06-22T15:02:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/21 "2005-06-22T16:19:28Z")
I can’t see anything anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel in the post, **elucidator** and I do think **Mr. Moto** stepped over the line. **Mr. Moto** : The right thing to do here is to offer a simple apology. Don’t justify what you said, because it really can’t be justified. We all make mistakes, and I know that **elucidator** has a history of graciously accepting sincere apologies. How about it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/22 "2005-06-22T16:28:16Z")
I have to admit that when I first read what 'luci said in the other thread I thought it was a bit…odd. And lord knows I don’t usually agree with him on anything, though I do enjoy his over the top and flowery speeches…he can be quite droll at times. But I’m just not seeing 'luci as an anti-Semitic or even anti-Israel type…just a guy who likes to make flowery speeches from his virtual soapbox. And he DID ask for anyone to come along and tell him his musings were wrong. I think a better tact for Mr. Moto would have been to do just that with some cites or with an equally flowery speech back at him. On the other hand, I’m not sure that what Mr. Moto said was particularly pit worthy, but then I’m not one to resort to the pit usually in any case. I usually only venture in here when someone in GD links a pit thread. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/23 "2005-06-22T16:30:39Z")
Wow, I really thought that sort of crap was beneath you, **Mr. Moto**. Very disappointing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/24 "2005-06-22T16:34:09Z")
A worthy effort, **John** , “blessed are the peacemakers”, and all that. Let me lend perspective. **Scylla** used to irk me. **Brutus** annoyed me. This time I am _really_ pissed off! I am sitting here munching a bag of tenpenny nails like they were Cheetos. A simple “oopsy!” ain’t gonna get it. Let him to the river go, to perform that Ancient Tasmanian Ritual of Self-Abasement, accompanied by a Chorus of Bitter Virgins, intoning dirges of Woe and Humiliation. For starters. 'Cause I am _really_ pissed off! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/25 "2005-06-22T16:34:38Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > On the other hand, I’m not sure that what Mr. Moto said was particularly pit worthy, but then I’m not one to resort to the pit usually in any case. I usually only venture in here when someone in GD links a pit thread. > > -XT It’s the blatant imputation of Jew-bashing, of alliance with rabid anti-Semitism, that’s Pit-worthy. If **Mr. Moto** had simply said, “That’s a loony conspiracy theory you’re tossing out,” I don’t believe **elucidator** would have taken him to the Pit. Are you unfamiliar with what the _Protocols of Zion_ are? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/26 "2005-06-22T16:35:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > In an odd way, yes. Not directly, almost innocently, but they make an ancient and worthy tradition little more than bit players on their stage, in support of a theology that is more Steven King than Francis of Assisi. I think that, unless you correct me, I’ll take that as more of a no than a yes. Indirect, around the bend, over the stage, and innocent — I’d say you haven’t really called them anti-Semetic, and I’m glad of that. My sister is a fundamentalist Christian who believes that Israel plays a central role (not a bit part) in what she believes is the Last Days. I think that where she might differ with the Falwells, et al, is that she believes that Israel is fulfilling God’s plan, and not hers. She does not believe that Israel benefits her in any way. She believes that her salvation is a personal matter between her and God. Anyway, I’ll let this go now and return you to your pitting. But there still is the matter of your Volvo fallacy. Selecting certain events, attributes, particulars, or what-have-you, that stand out to you as important, vital, or memorable, and then positing those things as support for some conclusion is a mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/27 "2005-06-22T16:36:13Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > I do not think you are necessarily anti-semitic. I do, though, think you peddle strange conpiracy theories that are shared by rabid Jew haters. > > And your musings about end-time theology and its impact on our foreign policy is indeed a strange conspiracy theory. It’s nutbar stuff, and puts you in with some low disgusting creatures. Exactly what are you saying here? Are you setting up an equivelance between **elucidator** and “rabid Jew haters” or “low disgusting creatures”? As long as an opinion is honesty held then I don’t see why the character or motivations of other people who hold similar opinions should reflect poorly upon the honest man. This is nothing more than guilt by association. If you wanted to call the idea a nutbar conspiracy theory, then feel free to do so. **elucidator** can then choose to explain his reasoning or not as he sees fit. Unless you are contending that one of those Jew haters or “low disgusting creatures” are the topic of conversation, or claiming **elucidator** is one of them, then there is no reason to mention them at all. Guilt by association is a logically bankrupt rhetorical technique. It holds no water and should be given no quarter in honest dialogue. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/28 "2005-06-22T16:38:54Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Are you unfamiliar with what the Protocols of Zion are? I’m familiar with them, yes. I don’t recall Mr. Moto bringing them up…did I miss it? If so, link to it and I’ll re-evaluate my position on this. > [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > It’s the blatant imputation of Jew-bashing, of alliance with rabid anti-Semitism, that’s Pit-worthy. If Mr. Moto had simply said, “That’s a loony conspiracy theory you’re tossing out,” I don’t believe elucidator would have taken him to the Pit. Perhaps you are right. I actually read what Mr. Moto said as essentially “That’s a loony conspiracy theory you’re tossing out”, and just making digs at 'luci that he was running parallel to some other nutballs (i.e. the Jew-bashing anti-semitic, or Jew world order folks)…not that he actually WAS one. But I may have misread what was being said. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/29 "2005-06-22T16:45:30Z")
**elucidator** , for the record, this Israeli does not consider you an anti-semite. While there are some Israelis who consider any criticism of their country to originate in anti-Jewish bigotry, I am not one of them. And while there are many people around the world who indeed use anti-Israeli positions as a way to express their own racism, I do not believe that you are one of _them_. And yes, the Christian fundie supporters worry me, too. While we’re not a nation that looks a gift horse in the mouth - after all, we’re hardly beating off supporters with a stick - the religiously motivated give me pause, especially this specific group. Who knows when they’ll decide that they were wrong all along, and go back to their old Jew-hating was? Christians supporting Jews is hardly normal, historically speaking. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/30 "2005-06-22T16:50:10Z")
**Mr. Moto’s** comments are the first real evidence I have seen on this board of someone invoking anti-Semitism as a direct counter to a critique of Israel.\* As such, it will probably be referred to repeatedly by those who like to wail about how they can’t say a negative thing about Israel without being labeled bigots. Bullshit, yes, but now they have a shred of justification. It is wrong and self-defeating to infer bigotry in such a context, **Mr. Moto** , unless you have sufficient evidence to do so. Here you do not. There have been numerous other cases where virulently anti-Israel posters have betrayed their anti-Semitic feelings, so there’s been ample opportunity to demonstrate this linkage in the more extreme cases. \*I use the word “critique” loosely, as it reeks of conspiracy theorist blather. > [@elucidator](#): > > I would be pleased to hear an authoritative counter-argument… _I_ would be pleased to hear an authoritative _argument_ in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/31 "2005-06-22T16:52:35Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > I’m familiar with them, yes. I don’t recall Mr. Moto bringing them up…did I miss it? If so, link to it and I’ll re-evaluate my position on this. > -XT [Here you go](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6287520&postcount=47) – a response to my post directly above challenging him to support what he’d said. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/32 "2005-06-22T16:56:23Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > A worthy effort, **John** , “blessed are the peacemakers”, and all that. > > Let me lend perspective. **Scylla** used to irk me. **Brutus** annoyed me. _sigh_ Always a bridesmaid, never a bride. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/33 "2005-06-22T17:18:40Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > _sigh_ > > Always a bridesmaid, never a bride. I’d say that may be because your particular annoyingness is of a more recent vintage. I can’t really remember thinking that you’d been drinking Kool-Aid prior to November of last year… ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/34 "2005-06-22T17:39:40Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I can’t really remember thinking that you’d been drinking Kool-Aid prior to November of last year… This really irritates me. It was never my beloved Kool-aid (Thought the packets had better art work back then.) It was [Flavor-Aid](http://flail.com/kafaqold.html#15) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/35 "2005-06-22T17:40:44Z")
Sounds like **Mr Moto** is channeling **december**. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/36 "2005-06-22T17:44:53Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > This really irritates me. It was never my beloved Kool-aid (Thought the packets had better art work back then.) It was [Flavor-Aid](http://flail.com/kafaqold.html#15) 'ere, you had Flavor-Aid? All we ever got was the shavings from colored pencils and melted crayons stirred in tepid water, and damn happy to have it, we were! ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/37 "2005-06-22T17:49:03Z")
::Shakes head rapidly:: _No, no, no, no_ I am, and I believe jayjay, is saying we believe Bricker is of the mindset to drink Flavor-Aid. I am Kool-Aid drinker all the way. I never really liked it, untill I went to a Science Center daycamp one summer, when I was a kid, but it turned out all my prior experiences with it was due to a neighbor tainting it by pouring in gelatin mix. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/38 "2005-06-22T17:54:06Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Q: Why does Texas A&M schedule games with Baylor? > A: Because Aggies are too stupid to practice with tackling dummys. Q: Why do Aggies hate to play Texas Tech? A: Because they have tee tee on their jerseys. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/39 "2005-06-22T17:58:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > **elucidator** , for the record, this Israeli does not consider you an anti-semite. While there are some Israelis who consider any criticism of their country to originate in anti-Jewish bigotry, I am not one of them. And while there are many people around the world who indeed use anti-Israeli positions as a way to express their own racism, I do not believe that you are one of _them_. > > And yes, the Christian fundie supporters worry me, too. While we’re not a nation that looks a gift horse in the mouth - after all, we’re hardly beating off supporters with a stick - the religiously motivated give me pause, especially this specific group. Who knows when they’ll decide that they were wrong all along, and go back to their old Jew-hating was? Christians supporting Jews is hardly normal, historically speaking. Indeed, One should really be worried of friends that have a picture of the end of times where your people will be either converted or dead! The recently released recorded conversation of Nixon with Billy Graham shows IMO the mentality of the extreme religious right in America: From a 1972 conversation with President Richard Nixon and Billy Graham. Tape of the Oval Office meeting from the National Archives. > [@](#): > > “This stranglehold has got to be broken or the country’s going down the drain,” the nation’s best-known preacher declared as he agreed with a stream of bigoted Nixon comments about Jews and their perceived influence in American life. > > “You believe that?” Nixon says after the “stranglehold” comment. > > “Yes, sir,” Graham says. > > “Oh, boy,” replies Nixon. “So do I. I can’t ever say that but I believe it.” > > “No, but if you get elected a second time, then we might be able to do something,” Graham replies. > > [Nixon speaking] > The best Jews are actually the Israeli Jews." > “That’s right,” agrees Graham, who later concurs with a Nixon assertion that a “powerful bloc” of Jews confronts Nixon in the media. “And they’re the ones putting out the pornographic stuff,” Graham adds. > “Well,” says Nixon, “it’s also, the Jews are irreligious, atheistic, immoral bunch of bastards.” So, it is their location and the Christian prophecies that are a factor that -for the moment- helps the Jews in Israel, if ever the religious right stops believing the concept of “Jews controlling Israel is needed for the end of times”, then I do think Israel will have a good chunk of that help gone. ---
**Author:** ![RTA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b4bc9f/32.png) [@RTA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTA)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370/40 "2005-06-22T18:00:00Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > It’s nutbar stuff, and puts you in with some low disgusting creatures. Funny; I was just saying the same thing about the people who continue to lob shitballs at Bill Clinton and the Kennedy family. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moto-loathesome-pustule/309370.md?page=3)