# Motoflux magnet motor, could this work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 27, 2023, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447 "2023-02-27T19:05:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![KenL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e79b87/32.png) [@KenL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenL)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/41 "2023-03-03T00:48:19Z")
In the intro, the inventor claims he filed a patent on his invention. Why didn’t he reveal the patent number? ---
**Author:** ![KenL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e79b87/32.png) [@KenL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenL)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/42 "2023-03-03T00:50:49Z")
If and when they achieve more energy out from this fusion experiment, it will because they have actually converted some mass into energy. In other words, they will have consumer fuel. The magnet motor can’t deliver energy out because nothing gets consumed. ---
**Author:** ![KenL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e79b87/32.png) [@KenL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenL)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/43 "2023-03-03T00:58:24Z")
Any “gear system” that produces more torque at the output has to reduce the rpm proportionately. Whether it’s magnets or teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/44 "2023-03-03T01:27:03Z")
According to their website, it’s US Patent 10,897,166 You can see [details of the patent here](https://worldwide.espacenet.com/patent/search/family/074180673/publication/US10897166B1?q=us10897166). As is common with these kinds of things, the patent doesn’t mention anything to do with energy, power or torque gains. They only really describe and claim the physical structure of the device, which as others have noted, is just a new kind of magnetic bearing thingy. So, as far as the US Patent Office is concerned, they haven’t patented anything related to free energy or perpetual motion. I doubt the examiner even realized that’s how the company would be marketing it. This kind of patent shenanigans is typical of scam artists. They know how to manipulate the patent system to get a patent. Honestly mistaken or honestly crazy people usually don’t try to hide the fact that they’re claiming a free energy device. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/45 "2023-03-03T01:30:33Z")
> [@KenL](#): > > Why didn’t he reveal the patent number? From the [website](https://www.motofluxpower.com/) ### Motoflux was awarded US Patent #10,897,166 B1 with additional EU and US Patents Pending ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/46 "2023-03-03T01:33:03Z")
> [@KenL](#): > > In the intro, the inventor claims he filed a patent on his invention. > Why didn’t he reveal the patent number? Why does he keep using techobabble to describe this thing that is just a very inefficient electric motor, if it actually works at all. I don’t know if he believes his own words or is actively scamming people. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/47 "2023-03-03T01:49:20Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t know if he believes his own words or is actively scamming people. See my post about the patent. It has all the hallmarks of a scam artist. ---
**Author:** ![Francis\_Vaughan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/francis_vaughan/32/3093_2.png) [@Francis\_Vaughan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francis_Vaughan)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/48 "2023-03-03T02:08:26Z")
> [@video](#): > > we want to extract power from the force stored in permanent magnets One might note that there’s nothing stopping someone from doing this. But like the old Daffy Duck gag, it’s a great trick, but you can only do it once. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/49 "2023-03-03T02:36:16Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > as far as the US Patent Office is concerned, they haven’t patented anything related to free energy or perpetual motion. I doubt the examiner even realized that’s how the company would be marketing it. As far as I can tell, the patent office puts minimal effort into reviewing the patent. There are patents for things that simply do not work as described, and there are patents that cover the most basic of ideas that are a millimeter shy of prior art. The patent office does not really care about the use of the patented thingy/concept and most punts that stuff to the courts. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/50 "2023-03-03T02:44:04Z")
Thanks for finding that. I hope someone at the patent office notices this: " What is to be appreciated is that using the techniques described it is possible to control the output shaft rotation via the control shaft rotation without the use of electricity or electronics. That is, the rotating armature is controlled by the radial field control using magnetics in a magnetic circuit without the use of electricity. " ETA: or based on the post above this maybe no one will. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/51 "2023-03-03T03:54:04Z")
This sort of thing is good fun till you have an acquaintance/friend with a head injury who starts [seriously contemplating sending money](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/holcombe-energy-systems-the-new-steorn/959192/5). Brings home the seriousness pretty quick. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/56 "2023-03-03T17:26:30Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > They claim that rotating a small magnet inside a permanent magnet armature will make this motor run and produce more power than used to rotate that small magnet. This evidence that our educational system is failing is a good reason to stop reading at this point. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > How else do you encabulate your Milford trunnions? Don’t tell me you use an old-style hydrodysphoric spin-stabilized macklewanie? Those things were delisted by the American Society of Avionical and Astronumerical Engineers because of the rate of occupational delocalizations resulting from miscalibration of the paravascular sybellators, leading to incorrect predictions of retrograde kinematic optical amplifinchers which was the suspected cause of the 1979 White Plains Canal disaster. That, too. 🤣 ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/57 "2023-03-03T18:00:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > This evidence that our educational system is failing is a good reason to stop reading at this point. The things they say are clearly bullshit. But they show what they have done, and filed a patent showing the same thing. The device is just an oddity, inefficiently changing magnetic fields by physically moving a permanent magnet with another motor to make the reluctance motor operate. It’s more complicated than they provide details for, that permanent magnet has to lead the armature to make it move, then retreat as the armature moves between poles. It seems to depend on one way bearings to keep moving forward also, that tells me their design depends on momentum to keep moving. All of that could be done with switched electromagnets in the device instead of the external motor. No doubt this is being presented as something it’s not. It is interesting to see this configuration of motor though. Perhaps something that could lead to a magnetic gearing system some how, but not any kind of efficient motor, and certainly not something that extracts power from permanent magnets. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/58 "2023-03-03T18:20:08Z")
Suffice to say, electric motor design is a very, very mature field. For modern developments, resources are primarily put into advanced _materials_. Though we should remain open-minded, any claims that a “new” design will have significant improvements in efficiency should be met with skepticism. Any claims of “over unity” do not warrant an investigation at all; it’s a waste of time to even discuss it. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2023, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447/59 "2023-03-03T19:36:34Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Suffice to say, electric motor design is a very, very mature field. For modern developments, resources are primarily put into advanced _materials_. @Dr.Strangelove made the same point above. This motor isn’t doing that. For instance, reluctance motors are becoming popular because they don’t depend on permanent magnets. Their iron cores use very common materials but do use some advanced designs to minimize loss, and I’ve seen a recent development claimed that takes advantage of the air gaps necessary in reluctance motors. The iron cores are heavy but so are the permanent magnets they replace. The design examined in this thread uses both a heavy iron stator or core in addition to permanent magnets making it both heavy and expensive. That’s no way to advance motor technology. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motoflux-magnet-motor-could-this-work/980447.md?page=2)