# Motorcycle nerds: What is this old bike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 25, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537 "2011-09-25T07:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 7:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/1 "2011-09-25T07:45:13Z")
I came out of a movie in Brea, CA, and found this. I take it to be a Soviet WWII era military bike from the language and the red star (not pictured). Can anyone ID this? [![](https://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/flavord/Old%20Motorcycle/2011-09-24_21-02-58_527.jpg) ](https://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k110/flavord/Old%20Motorcycle/2011-09-24_21-02-58_527.jpg) More pictures in that album. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/2 "2011-09-25T08:04:31Z")
It’s probably not old at all. It’s a URAL, Russian made to a 1940’s design but they still make them in the same style to this day. > **[IMZ-Ural](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMZ-Ural)** > > IMZ-Ural (Russian: Ирбитский мотоциклетный завод, romanized: Irbitskiy Mototsikletniy Zavod, lit. 'Irbit Motorcycle Factory') is the manufacturer of Ural sidecar motorcycles. > In 1940, the Soviet Union acquired the design and production techniques for BMW R71 motorcycles and sidecars. The first M-72 model was finished in 1941. Originally, factories were to be located in Moscow, Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg), and Kharkiv, but due to the approach of Nazi German troops, the Moscow facilities were... > **[Ural Motorcycles](https://www.imz-ural.com/)** > > Ural Sidecar Motorcycles, the world's leading maker of off-road ready sidecar motorcycles, featuring our legendary on-demand 2 wheel drive. Similarly, you can still buy a Royal Enfield to almost the same design as the original 1940’s Bullet. > **[Royal Enfield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Enfield)** > > Royal Enfield was a brand name under which The Enfield Cycle Company Limited of Redditch, Worcestershire sold motorcycles, bicycles, lawnmowers and stationary engines which they had manufactured. Enfield Cycle Company also used the brand name "Enfield" without the "Royal". > The first Royal Enfield motorcycle was built in 1901. The Enfield Cycle Company is responsible for the design and original production of the Royal Enfield Bullet, the longest-lived motorcycle design in history. > Royal Enfiel... ---
**Author:** ![SeldomSeen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ba0ec/32.png) [@SeldomSeen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeldomSeen)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/3 "2011-09-25T15:40:11Z")
Interesting. My first thought, looking at the picture was “BMW”. The two-cylinder opposed-piston engine has long been an identifying characteristic of BMW bikes, much as the V-twin is to Harleys. Then I read the wikipedia piece on Urals and discovered that they are indeed patterned after the WW2-era German BMW’s. SS ---
**Author:** ![automagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@automagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/automagic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/4 "2011-09-25T15:44:04Z")
Sorry, but had to point out that it says Ural on the gas tank ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/5 "2011-09-25T17:37:22Z")
URAL - “Under Repair Along Road”. They look cool but their build quality makes them the Yugo/Moskvitch/Trabant of the motorcycle world. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/6 "2011-09-25T18:08:55Z")
> [@Philliam](#): > > URAL - “Under Repair Along Road”. Um… ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/7 "2011-09-25T20:42:06Z")
That is a 750cc Patrol model, with engagable driven sidecar wheel. The first 750s came out around Y2K maybe 2001? Anyway it is not old at all. I own that model, so can answer most any question. ---
**Author:** ![automagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@automagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/automagic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/8 "2011-09-25T21:25:26Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > That is a 750cc Patrol model, with engagable driven sidecar wheel. The first 750s came out around Y2K maybe 2001? Anyway it is not old at all. I own that model, so can answer most any question. When you ride a motorcycle with a sidecar how do you turn? In a normal motorcycle you push the handlebar in the direction you want to go. Is it the same once you have a sidecar? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/9 "2011-09-26T00:11:35Z")
> [@automagic](#): > > In a normal motorcycle you push the handlebar in the direction you want to go. On a normal motorbike, once you are going at more than 10 km or so you steer by leaning (with your knees if you’ve been taught properly). You don’t turn the handle bars except at very low speeds. Never ridden a sidecar, but I believe its essentially the same, by leaning. The sidecar is attached is a way that still allows the motorbike to lean. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/10 "2011-09-26T00:16:42Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > On a normal motorbike, once you are going at more than 10 km or so you steer by leaning (with your knees if you’ve been taught properly). You don’t turn the handle bars except at very low speeds. I don’t believe this is accurate, though your second sentence sounds as if you may be misconstruing the quoted post. At low speeds, you turn the forks (via the handlebars) in the direction you want to go. At speed, you apply pressure to the handlebar on the side to which you are turning. e.g., if you want to bank right, you apply pressure to the right handlebar. What you’ve posted sounds as if you initiate a turn by leaning in that direction. ---
**Author:** ![Arrendajo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Arrendajo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arrendajo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/11 "2011-09-26T00:43:54Z")
Just saw my first Ural last night, coincidentally. It was shiny black, with the side car and spare wheel and all kinds of luggage racks and mounts and rails. They are really cool looking bikes. ---
**Author:** ![automagic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a698b9/32.png) [@automagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/automagic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/12 "2011-09-26T00:48:14Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > On a normal motorbike, once you are going at more than 10 km or so you steer by leaning (with your knees if you’ve been taught properly). You don’t turn the handle bars except at very low speeds. > Never ridden a sidecar, but I believe its essentially the same, by leaning. The sidecar is attached is a way that still allows the motorbike to lean. Although the motorcycle does indeed lean in a turn you do not have to lean your body for it to happen. I have completely taken my hands of my handlebars while going 40 mph (you can yell at me later for this) and no matter how hard I try to lean the bike just keeps going straight. If you want to go left you MUST push the left handlebar or PULL the right handlebar which torques the handlebar the same way. If your body leans with the bike it reduces the amount your bike must lean to achieve the same arc which is why you see motorcycle racers almost hanging off their bike in a turn. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/13 "2011-09-26T00:56:14Z")
I believe you automagic. Interestingly in the rider training course I did to get my motorbike license in Australia we were taught to initiate normal turns with our knees, I guess we were doing the correct amount of counter-steer on the handle bars without realising it. We were taught counter-steer as the technique for sudden emergency swerving, but to this day it seems to me like I steer entirely with my knees under normal riding, I’m not conscious of initiating an opposite steer to start the lean at all. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/14 "2011-09-26T00:58:52Z")
It’s definitely more difficult to initiate a turn with knees/leaning alone. (On cold days I used to ride with my hands in my pockets.) ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/15 "2011-09-26T05:19:03Z")
> [@automagic](#): > > … I have completely taken my hands of my handlebars while going 40 mph (you can yell at me later for this) and no matter how hard I try to lean the bike just keeps going straight… :dubious: Hmmm… Really? If you lean one way or the other, the bike just keeps going straight? What kind of bike are we talking about, here? Does it have a steering damper installed? I’m not saying that your wrong, it’s just that my bike (a 1994 Harley Davidson Road King) will most definitely curve to the right or left at any speed above 35-40 mph. Hell, I’ve ridden most (65-70%) of the way from Houston to Dallas, without ever _touching_ the handlebars. All I had to do was shift my weight a little, to steer around the curves. (It was winter. Rode with my hands tucked around the speedometer, body hunkered down onto the gas tank to stay out of the wind.😉 75mph with a 35-40 degree ambient air temperature, can sure take _ **all** _ of the fun out of motorcycle riding! :eek:) Of course, it does not have any kind of steering dampening system installed on it. ---
**Author:** ![JBDivmstr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b4bc9f/32.png) [@JBDivmstr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JBDivmstr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/16 "2011-09-26T05:24:37Z")
Sorry for the hijack. To answer the OP’s question… **coremelt** and **Kevbo** beat me to the draw. I’ve seen a few Urals (w/sidecar) riding around here in Houston, too. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/17 "2011-09-26T13:19:37Z")
> [@automagic](#): > > Although the motorcycle does indeed lean in a turn you do not have to lean your body for it to happen. I have completely taken my hands of my handlebars while going 40 mph (you can yell at me later for this) and no matter how hard I try to lean the bike just keeps going straight. You’re not trying hard enough. You definitely can steer a motorcycle with body english alone, just as surely as you can a bicycle. [This guy proves it.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HuRlxpC9l-g#t=20s) However, it’s much harder/slower due to the inertia of the motorcycle. Want to turn a hot lap at Laguna Seca? You better have your hands on the bars. Motorcycles equipped with rigidly-attached sidecars handle like cars. They do not lean, so no countersteering or body english is required: you steer them just like a car, i.e. turn the bars right to turn right. Motorcycles equipped with articulated sidecars (i.e. a mechanism that permits the bike and the sidecar to lean into the turn while keeping all wheels on the ground) handle like an ordinary motorcycle, i.e. countersteering and/or body english is required. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/18 "2011-09-26T16:10:17Z")
Though they do exist, there are very few leaning sidecar rigs. You don’t countersteer or lean a conventional sidecar. Because the driven wheel is on one side, and the motorcycle is normally heavier, there are a lot of steering effects related to acceleration and braking. Left turns and right turns require different technique, and taking either one too fast can lead to a world of hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Philliam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/philliam/32/3011_2.png) [@Philliam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philliam)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/19 "2011-09-26T16:55:54Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Um… Oops… lost control of my Anagram-Fu at the last moment and veered off onto the Breakdown Lane of Incomprehensibility. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537/20 "2011-09-26T18:35:00Z")
Like Kevbo said, if you own a Ural, you had better have some answers. UDF, or Ural Delay Factor must be considered when riding or doing errands. A quick stop at Home Depot can easily take 40 minutes just answering questions from old-timers, kids, bikers, and more. I give a lot of sidecar rides to strangers around the outskirts of Publix, Home Depot, you name it. [Mine](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/bikepair.jpg)is a 1998 Deco model, now discontinued. No fancy electric start for me; kick start, FTW! You kids with your new 750’s that go over 52mph make me sick! Some of us put [accessories](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/01RallyMG.jpg)on them to approximate their original use, or just for clearing traffic. Here’s a pic of [Russians](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/hp1.jpg)lined up on their Urals, stolen from the kids at BMW in [Germany](http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/ural/333.jpg)! When they were smaller, my kids favorite thing was for me to pick them up from school, and make a right turn, picking up the sidecar and riding that way home. Any Ural rider I know has perfected “flying the chair” in their first month of ownership. It’s just one more thing that sets us foil heads apart… [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-nerds-what-is-this-old-bike/597537.md?page=2)