# Motorcycle Riders...Confrontations With Cars..Etc **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 14, 2017, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463 "2017-12-14T01:50:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/81 "2017-12-17T12:54:21Z")
The higher fatality rate is a function of a bike’s lack of protection. That doesn’t explain the higher accident rate, which is a function of riding skill. As you say, the most common accidents among riders overall are single-vehicle accidents with people losing control in turns (and typically under the influence.) The most common accidents involving cars is indeed someone in a car turning across the path of the motorcycle. So having identified the two chief hazards, both with well-known countermeasures covered in pretty much all rider training, how do you rationally combine riders having superior driving skills with riders consistently making the most common blunders in riding? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/82 "2017-12-17T15:40:31Z")
> [@epbrown01](#): > > The higher fatality rate is a function of a bike’s lack of protection. That doesn’t explain the higher accident rate, which is a function of riding skill. Read engineer\_comp\_geek’s post again. He did a pretty good job at explaining why one could expect motorcyclists to have a higher accident rate. I also bet part of the discrepancy in rates is that there are a lot of minor accidents in cars that go unreported where the same type of accident between a car and a bike cause injury or excessive damage to the bike, which won’t go unreported. > [@](#): > > As you say, the most common accidents among riders overall are single-vehicle accidents with people losing control in turns (and typically under the influence.) “Typically” under the influence? As in, most motorcyclists are under the influence when they lose control in a turn and are in a single vehicle accident? Cite? > [@](#): > > So having identified the two chief hazards, both with well-known countermeasures covered in pretty much all rider training, how do you rationally combine riders having superior driving skills with riders consistently making the most common blunders in riding? Can you quote someone in this thread that claimed that? That’s the second time you’ve claimed someone is saying that and I don’t see it being said. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2017, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/83 "2017-12-18T05:49:34Z")
… and then this afternoon on the freeway, on I-280 in San Jose CA, I’m doing 75 in my car in light traffic, in the fast lane, and some squid on some 1,000 CC sportbike lane splits past me and others. He’s wearing jeans, and some fashion jacket that’s billowing up his back, exposing a t-shirt. Not exactly full leathers. As I saw him in the rearview mirror coming up behind me, I thought of this fine group of guys here in this discussion. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/84 "2017-12-19T03:10:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The next time I’m in a food takeout line, I think I’ll cut ahead of the old people in front of me. I’ll complete my purchase much faster than them and be out of their hair, so everyone will be happier. To be fair, motorcycles accelerate MUCH faster than any car. In addition, it’s safer for the rider to move up from the end of that line where they risk being rear-ended by an inattentive driver – because rare as that is, being rear-ended on a motorcycle is much worse than being rear-ended in a car. Counter-intuitive though it may seem, it’s safer for the smaller, more vulnerable rider to be going slightly faster than car traffic. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/85 "2017-12-19T07:18:43Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The next time I’m in a food takeout line, I think I’ll cut ahead of the old people in front of me. I’ll complete my purchase much faster than them and be out of their hair, so everyone will be happier. See post 60: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20668291#post20668291](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20668291#post20668291) ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/86 "2017-12-19T14:50:10Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > At a stop light, cars wait in their lanes. Motorcycles have more lanes to use, the ones with cars in them and also the spaces in between. So a motorcycle can take that space. > > It’s similar to a car pulling up to a red light where there are 3 lanes. If 5 cars are lined up in one lane, 4 in the second lane, and none in the third lane, then if the car pulling up changes lanes to take the empty lane, it isn’t cutting in front of anyone. > > Same thing. Motorcycles have more ‘lanes’ to use. Your logic only holds up if that’s the last traffic light on the edge of town before the big, open road or those extra lanes continue after the light. If not, those 4 lanes at the light go right back down to two after the light. Once we pass the light & are back in traffic, I’m now one more vehicle back on the way to the next light. A few motorcycles do this & I don’t make the next light because I’m now the 6[sup]th[/sup] or 7[sup]th[/sup] car back instead of the 4[sup]th[/sup] or 5[sup]th[/sup] car back. It’s no different than a car that pulls up to the front of the turn lane but then goes straight. Taking advantage just because you _can_ is a d-baggy maneuver & not the way one is supposed to act in a civilized society. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/87 "2017-12-19T16:34:09Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > See post 60: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20668291#post20668291](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20668291#post20668291) You’re quoting Jackmannii in post 49, his last post in this thread. Why are you asking him to see post 60? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/88 "2017-12-19T16:45:55Z")
I can be a coin flip on the subject. One accident I had years ago the driver admitted that he just saw a motorcycle he wanted dead and basically t-boned me on purpose. On the other hand I got pissed at a car that cut under me illegally on a curve and I retributed a little on him. I have seen bikes do things that brought shame on our species let alone our choice of transportation and drivers who have done the same. Car or bike, it all can come down to one loose nut. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/89 "2017-12-19T18:37:57Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I can be a coin flip on the subject. One accident I had years ago the driver admitted that he just saw a motorcycle he wanted dead and basically t-boned me on purpose. He just saw you riding down the road and decided to murder you? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/90 "2017-12-19T18:53:47Z")
> [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](#): > > He just saw you riding down the road and decided to murder you? Completely from memory: There was a case 25(?) years ago in the SF Bay area on 280, someone deliberately ran over a motorcyclist because “he heard they were dangerous”. Witnesses said he went across several lanes to make the hit. The victim (who survived) was a very well known name as an aftermarket manufacturer but I don’t remember who. I’m thinking it was Mike Corbin(seats) or Craig Vetter(fairings). Someone of that recognition factor. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/91 "2017-12-19T19:18:37Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > To be fair, motorcycles accelerate MUCH faster than any car. true. My FZ-09 (considered a “mid-range” standard) is supposed to be capable of 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. I don’t know how anyone measured that while keeping the front wheel on the pavement. heck, Harleys are considered “slow” bikes, but even a full-dress Electra Glide will do 0-60 in 5 seconds or so, which is quicker than a hell of a lot of cars on the market. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/92 "2017-12-19T19:26:38Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > true. My FZ-09 (considered a “mid-range” standard) is supposed to be capable of 0-60 in 2.9 seconds. \*\* I don’t know how anyone measured that while keeping the front wheel on the pavement. \*\* > > heck, Harleys are considered “slow” bikes, but even a full-dress Electra Glide will do 0-60 in 5 seconds or so, which is quicker than a hell of a lot of cars on the market. You hire someone like [Jay “Pee-Wee” Gleason](http://ridermagazine.com/2017/02/14/r-i-p-racing-legend-jay-peewee-gleason/). (RIP) ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2017, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/93 "2017-12-19T20:49:33Z")
I don’t have anything against motorcycles or motorcyclists per se, but man, sometimes I just don’t\* see\* you folks. It’s like someone said upthread about how a car driver isn’t used to motorcycles being part of the regular scenario of what a driver usually encounters. For example, I’m so used to focusing on car brake lights that I have to really concentrate on a motorcycle when they’re in front of me and not on the car brake lights in front of THEM. I find it so stressful and have gone out of my way to avoid being around motorcycles (like turning into a parking lot). I’m so worried I’ll hurt or kill someone just because I’m not expecting them to be there. While I hate when motorcyclists startle me by zooming between another car and me, at least if they get away from me I don’t have to worry. While this doesn’t explain people who target you, a car driver might be angry because you scare(d) the crap out of us. We didn’t expect you to be there. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/94 "2017-12-20T03:25:03Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Your logic only holds up if that’s the last traffic light on the edge of town before the big, open road or those extra lanes continue after the light. If not, those 4 lanes at the light go right back down to two after the light. Once we pass the light & are back in traffic, I’m now one more vehicle back on the way to the next light. A few motorcycles do this & I don’t make the next light because I’m now the 6[sup]th[/sup] or 7[sup]th[/sup] car back instead of the 4[sup]th[/sup] or 5[sup]th[/sup] car back. It’s no different than a car that pulls up to the front of the turn lane but then goes straight. Taking advantage just because you _can_ is a d-baggy maneuver & not the way one is supposed to act in a civilized society. Your logic ignores the acceleration factor. ALL of those motorcycles will be gone as soon as the light changes and be down the road far, far ahead of you. Compared to any motorcycle, a car driver is doing the equivalent of sitting in the fast lane while doing less than the speed limit. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/95 "2017-12-20T06:46:56Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > You’re quoting Jackmannii in post 49, his last post in this thread. Why are you asking him to see post 60? Because it addresses their point, again. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/96 "2017-12-20T06:53:58Z")
And tonight around 10 pm, on a major 5-lane highway a dude on his Harley lane split at 65 mph. I guess it is becoming more common here. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/97 "2017-12-20T16:32:56Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Because it addresses their point, again. Do you mean Jackmannii? Jackmannii’s last post was 49. You commented on it in post 60. Then in post 85 you quote Jackmannii from post 49 again and point him to post 60…and he hasn’t posted since post 49. I don’t mean to make a big deal about it, I’m just curious why you’re addressing his point again by linking to your previous reply. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/98 "2017-12-20T16:49:54Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > Your logic ignores the acceleration factor. > ALL of those motorcycles will be gone as soon as the light changes and be down the road far, far ahead of you. > > Compared to any motorcycle, a car driver is doing the equivalent of sitting in the fast lane while doing less than the speed limit. Spiderman didn’t ignore acceleration; his post is specifically regarding what can happen regardless of a motorcycle’s acceleration capabilities when there are more traffic lights ahead. He’s saying even if some number of motorcyclists lane splits and when the light turns green and they accelerates so fast it doesn’t affect him at that point, in some circumstances he’s going to catch up to the motorcyclists and now he will be sitting at a traffic light some number of vehicles behind the motorcyclists. The lane splitting is almost always illegal and it startles a lot of drivers to have that happen. I agree with him regarding it being a douchey maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/99 "2017-12-20T16:59:38Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Do you mean Jackmannii? Jackmannii’s last post was 49. You commented on it in post 60. Then in post 85 you quote Jackmannii from post 49 again and point him to post 60…and he hasn’t posted since post 49. I don’t mean to make a big deal about it, I’m just curious why you’re addressing his point again by linking to your previous reply. Because of post 84. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463/100 "2017-12-20T17:02:18Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Spiderman didn’t ignore acceleration; his post is specifically regarding what can happen regardless of a motorcycle’s acceleration capabilities when there are more traffic lights ahead. He’s saying even if some number of motorcyclists lane splits and when the light turns green and they accelerates so fast it doesn’t affect him at that point, in some circumstances he’s going to catch up to the motorcyclists and now he will be sitting at a traffic light some number of vehicles behind the motorcyclists. The lane splitting is almost always illegal and it startles a lot of drivers to have that happen. I agree with him regarding it being a douchey maneuver. Douchey maneuver? Have you been to Rome? San Francisco? [Motorcycle Lane-Splitting Could Move Beyond California Bills would extend practice to other states as safety debate continues](http://www.wsj.com/articles/motorcycle-lane-splitting-could-move-beyond-california-1425678764) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/motorcycle-riders-confrontations-with-cars-etc/804463.md?page=6)